Stat + Spells rework. Feedback wanted

[Jamie]

I've been thinking alot about the Idea of removing Minimum stat system for a while (before the server went live), in doing so would allow me to rework spells, bring about proper balance and add elements.

It is in my opinion that whilst this would be a HUGE change to the server as a whole, and that the server would be far better off in the long run, the only down side is the kit people have specifically aimed for currently might become ineffective.


Removal of Stats

• Minimum AC
• Minimum MAC
• Minimum DC
• Minimum MC
• Minimum SC

AC, MAC, DC, MC, SC would no longer be X ~ Y, but instead a Flat +X.

There are a lot of benefits from this system, but most notable are better balance and less RNG especially when it comes to PvP. With the changes to the way spells work, Weapons would be change the most.

Additional Stats

• Out of Combat Health per Second, (Functions similar to health per second but for out of combat, this would be a replacement your current Natural regen mechanic)
• Elements Resistance
• Element Weakness
• Element Attack
• Fire, Wind, Water, Earth, Holy, Darkness.

Most spells would need to be adjusted.

Currently there are at least 3 Random factors that decide the damage out put of most spells which isn't a good, my idea is as follows:

New Spells Calculation (These examples are NOT accurate values)

• Flaming Sword
  • Level 0: 20 Damage + 140% of DC as Damage, 50% Physical and 50% Magical. (Or 50% Fire Damage, 50% Physical Damage if I add elements at this point)
  • Level 1: 30 Damage + 160% of DC as Damage, 50% Physical and 50% Magical.
  • Level 2: 40 Damage + 180% of DC as Damage, 50% Physical and 50% Magical.
  • Level 3: 50 Damage + 200% of DC as Damage, 50% Physical and 50% Magical.
  
  
• Fire Ball
  • Level 0: 3 Damage + 50% of MC as Magic Damage. (Or Fire Damage if I add elements at this point)
  • Level 1: 6 Damage + 60% of MC as Magic Damage.
  • Level 2: 9 Damage + 70% of MC as Magic Damage.
  • Level 3: 12 Damage + 80% of MC as Magic Damage.
• Great Fire Ball
  • Level 0: 20 Damage + 50% of MC as Magic Damage. (Or Fire Damage if I add elements at this point)
  • Level 1: 25 Damage + 70% of MC as Magic Damage.
  • Level 2: 30 Damage + 90% of MC as Magic Damage.
  • Level 3: 35 Damage + 110% of MC as Magic Damage.
• Thunder Bolt
  • Level 0: 15 Damage + 60% of MC as Magic Damage, Deals 50% More to Undead. (Or Lightning Damage if I add elements at this point)
  • Level 1: 20 Damage + 70% of MC as Magic Damage, Deals 70% More to Undead.
  • Level 2: 25 Damage + 80% of MC as Magic Damage, Deals 90% More to Undead.
  • Level 3: 30 Damage + 90% of MC as Magic Damage, Deals 110% More to Undead.
  
  
• Summon Shinsu
  • Level 0: 15 Damage + 10% of SC as Magic Damage. (Or Fire Damage if I add elements at this point) (Mir 3 was Illusion/Phantom)
  • Level 1: 20 Damage + 15% of SC as Magic Damage.
  • Level 2: 25 Damage + 20% of SC as Magic Damage.
  • Level 3: 30 Damage + 25% of SC as Magic Damage.
  
  
• Cresent Slash
  • Level 0: 20 Damage + 50% of DC as Magic Damage. (Element could be decided by equipment)
  • Level 1: 40 Damage + 7% of DC as Magic Damage.
  • Level 2: 60 Damage + 80% of DC as Magic Damage.
  • Level 3: 80 Damage + 90% of DC as Magic Damage.

Monsters

• Monster stats would be displayed via Hunting log, AC, MAC, DC, Regen
• Monsters regeneration would be adjusted, Rather than being % of their max life and require poison. Each monster would be given a Regen value, Green poison would play less of an impact on bosses, as green poison would reduce this value by a 50% instead 100%.
• Since you now know your damage output, and you know the defense the monsters have, A Recommendation section could be made on where it is best to hunt.
• Monsters can be spawned with added stats.

How it effects PvP

• Fights would become alot more skill based rather than hit and hope.
  • You would be able to reliably deal the damage you expect.
  • You would be able to roughly guess the amount of damage you are about to take and act accordingly.

Issues

• Luck would become redundant as there is no Min and Max range so this would need to be adjusted to something, Increase chance of MassDrop for example.
• People aiming for RedMoonSword for one specific Spell (FlameField), Whilst this sword would have less value, it would increase value on other items.

If you are to provide feedback please give an actual reason WHY you like/dislike this rework. Any posts that I feel doesn't provide anything of merit will be removed so that when I review the thread only the constructive feedback will remain.

Note I may have missed one or two things, I will add to this when I remembered them or can explain things better.

 

[phoenixdancer]

I like all the ideas here.

 

[Elseani0]

This doesn't strike me as an entirely fair fielding of what the server base signed up for. At this point in the server many people have spent time and money on catering their kit to the way of Marble Mir, making this effort worthless will not fair well for the server count, especially with other big servers opening.

This change would allow you to calculate exactly who you could kill and who you tt to. This would mean less engagements and less player interaction. The current system allows you to get low and high hits thus having the chance of killing a better kitted player in the right circumstance with the right PVP tactic, this wouldn't be the case if they did consistently more damage than you.

This would remove the current established mechanics for the solo boss adventurer. Everyone likes a cheeky greed every now and then. And we all like to think 'can i kill this?' and throw ourselves into a sub or lower boss. This would remove the need for any such thought. Once again I'd do the math and have my answer, all from sz.

Whilst the thought of introducing various elements seems a nice one, it'd be a nightmare to balance as an admin for the server. All that would be achieved is an increase in complexity to the balancing act. As for the player perspective, you're left with there being little to no point stacking defensive stats as they wouldn't be applicable to the vast majority of PVP with there being elements introduced. You'd have people stacking attack as it's ALWAYS a defined harder hit. This equates to shorter fights and less PVP, as who wants to have a half second pop with anyone better kitted than you with the potential to lose months of work.

I'm not opposed to change and it's good to see you thinking of various aspects of game play. But the stats system is familiar to players and offers the 'have a go hero' factor. It also varies the way in which bosses are killed and the resources used. These elements are core elements of play in a game that has enchanted people for over a decade.

 

[KingCobra92]

I feel game is quite balanced as is... the game is still so early days we have so much more to come . It's to early for game breaking changes like this.

I honestly think you're trying to do to much , this combined with rebirth idea, it's just not needed , stick to simple additions for now new caves new items etc and let the server play out ..please.

 

[Koriban]

So...

No RNG basically.

You'll always know what you're going to hit, near enough.

Sounds kinda boring to me, but tbh had you done this from the start of the server I'd probably have been game for it.

Although it's got it's pro's n con's, I can't help but feel it's too little too late to start changing the mechanics of Mir so drastically so deep into a servers life?

We'll have to relearn EVERYTHING about our damage potentials, as well as everyone elses. It's not a simple change.

 

[GeeDee]

Too much of a re work. You spent hours trying to balance the server, doing this would reset it. I also think that this would mean that the group with more members are going to win each time they fight (good for us like).

I love the idea, but yea... it would basically become a new server.

 

[SamRivers2017]

It seems pretty balanced as it is for now. I would prefer an update with more caves or areas for people to solo, rather than a change to what already seems pretty balanced.

 

[xAxNxAx]

Better idea is a rewind..i know ppl put money and spend time into the server blabla but no one force u for this..we all spend time and I think more than 50% of the players spend money on server coz they want to be the best..

 

[Koriban]

Better idea is a rewind..i know ppl put money and spend time into the server blabla but no one force u for this..we all spend time and I think more than 50% of the players spend money on server coz they want to be the best..

 

[SamRivers2017]

Better idea is a rewind..i know ppl put money and spend time into the server blabla but no one force u for this..we all spend time and I think more than 50% of the players spend money on server coz they want to be the best..

Way to kill player count

 

[Piff1]

Cool idea but stupid at that point is it even mir ? Like you said you could just work out the damage you are going to take and just TT if you know you are going to die. Balance isn't even that bad most the cry come from 40-43s fighting 46+s and expecting not to get spanked. Jamie people would just be happy with more Bosses and cave's to level in right now. Stop worrying about a massive re-work like this.

 

[xAxNxAx]

Way to kill player count

That's not true at all..loyal people will continue to play an improved and better server and maybe they will like more and more ppl will join

 

[Koriban]

That's not true at all..loyal people will continue to play an improved and better server and maybe they will like more and more ppl will join

Oh yeah? Damn. You must have put so much time into the server too... what level are you again?

Did you hit 42 yet?

 

[xAxNxAx]

Oh yeah? Damn. You must have put so much time into the server too... what level are you again?

Did you hit 42 yet?

I don't see any relevance in this and yeah I got 45 Tao and 44 warrior and I play since this server start..i don't have much time like others but decent amount of hours in game keep u high enough ..so stop talking **** Kori as usual

 

[Jamie]

Stop worrying about a massive re-work like this.

The reason for the thread is to see if its worth further development , I'd rather spend 30 minutes making a thread (much like the rebirth / sabuk) and rely on the feedback given than to spend all that time actually building it with no benefit.

Nothing more than shower thoughts at the moment.

 

[Koriban]

These some funky ****ing showers you been having.

 

[mStation]

This game is needing a drastic remakes of the mechanics like this. I like the idea since it will finally bring something new back to the game.

 

[Doobie]

I've thought about this quite a lot since the thread has been posted, and this is actually a really awesome idea. A Mir server where the combat is all about skill and less about waiting for that big crit so you can deck people would be very interesting, but the more I thought about it the more I leaned against it.

First of all, this is Legend of Mir (obviously, duh). I mention this simply because: We all know what we've signed up for. We like dancing and dodging around eachother hoping to land that big crit, then shouting for everyone to focus that player down. It's how it is.

Furthermore, if there were to be no RNG factor at all, there'd be no "what the ****, mate my flamingsword just hit 400. Did you see that?", which when I think about it has always been quite a big part of it for me.

Yesterday we were having some 1v1 fights in the contest room just for practice. A warrior with 80 odd max DC was quite consistently able to beat one with 140 odd DC and crystal armour. The guy with lower DC did have about 9 points of slow on his gear though, where the heavy hitter had none. Funnily enough, me with max DC in the high 70's and no slow had an equal W/L ratio (with more wins towards the end once I'd figured out what to do) by dashing out of the slow and counting the seconds to flamingsword to reflect. The point I'm trying to make here, is that there is definitely an element of skill involved in the combat in its current state.

You've got to consider fights like warrior vs tao, most of the time I'm able to kill one is due to a big crit. If our damage was totally consistent I think the tao would win 100% of the time. Obviously if you plan to rebalance the whole game things like this would probably be addressed. But at the same time, things like this are very hard to balance not to mention: Mir is a group game not a 1v1 game. It's balanced actually quite ****ing well for group/guild v group/guild fights.

To conclude, I'm going to have to say I'm on the fence about this idea. You have to consider, most people don't come to play Legend of Mir to play some new game. They come here for good ol' Mir. Investing your time into such a huge overhaul which would completely change the game fundamentally is a very risky investment, particularly on a server advertised as "euro-like", where people come to play "authentic Mir".

I personally reckon that if you really do want to work on something like this, it's maybe treated as a kind of side-project, potentially for a future server. I would definitely be interested in giving it a go.

Off-topic: Something that I've always thought would be really cool after playing many non-themepark MMOs in my time is if every town was siegable and taxable by the owning guilds in Mir. I'll probably make a thread about this at some point when I can be bothered to do more writing about Mir :P

 

[WargodSius]

I don't think it's even worth me bringing my views on the actual content up to be honest, as the core point (in my opinion) is the scale of it. This is something that simply should never be considered when the server/service (if you prefer) is live.

From a designer point you have to consider what such changes will do to your workload - not just for the players, but for the mobs too. That's a lot of work, for what benefit? No one seems to be unhappy with the stat side of things, other than perhaps the 'luck' situation that always get cycled on Mir. And if this is to address that, then it's kinda shooting a bee with a bazooka (or a drone with a $1,000,000 PATRIOT missile). Balancing effectively starts again from scratch - ok balancing is a hot topic right now, but it always will be as you try to separate the 'meat' from the 'salt'.

Couple the above with potential issues for bugs/unforeseen problems with stats, and you kind of think 'is it worth it'?

Then you look from a 'customer' perspective: Players have paid a severe amount for things to work a certain way - whether this be money, effort or time, it's still a cost that has worked towards something. It won't really change much other than luck to be honest, if you really evaluate it, but perception will be what it is. And even just luck is enough to severely disappoint people.

I'd wait until an 'expansion' myself. This deep in, I think it would be foolish to consider such a change without a reboot. I like the ideas actually (and I think about 50% of the items I've created thus far have very low if any min-max difference, so definitely something I support/agree with), but not at the cost of a reboot.

 

[Varaka]

@jamie

tbh your doing sometime right currently as the server is, over 100 users @ peak times and 60+ at 4am GMT. Don't think there is need for huge changes atm.

Maybe an expansion of bdd for the solo lvler or the occasional lord at peak times ( 8:30pm GMT)

Remember OKS from chrons, this was loads of fun, easy to get to, KR was a little bigger than DD KR the mobs in there hurt OKS had alot of HP, could RT and i think the spawn was like 6-8 hour.

Remember Frost Tiger Boss from MIR 3? when that thing was up most of the server would come kill it trying to steal the tag. It didn't do much damage but it had a large hp pool and would send players flying a cross the screen and was fast moving. Shane will remember i saw him drag the boss off while ppl where fighting and hitting it for 30k+ with his crit pig.