Hermit Stats - Element Stacking

[DarkSacred]

It was previously heavily discussed on Discord, in global and on the forums.

The consensus from almost the entire player base was that being able to choose and stack elements via Hermit Points was the cause for the majority of balance issues within the game especially when coupled with MR and accessory refining.

With the impending change to Hermit Points due in tonight's reboot giving always the maximum roll are their any plans to look at the element stacking tonight as part of the change?

My concern stems from the highest level players for instance PokerFace has +99 wind from Hermit Points. After tonights reboot its going to be what? I don't know the calculations and level brackets for element points on hermit but his total is 133 atm, I can only assume he's going to be hitting closer to 200? Then we already have Taoists with 100+ phantom and 1 hitting everything in Lair. It's been great but for the longevity of the server it needs reviewing. Element choice in Mir 3 was always random due to the power of having stacked element damage.

This will not only massively and negatively effect PvP on the server but also the PvE content. It already feels like a high rate fast levelling server and that's before were going to get a massive enhancement on our damage tonight.

 

[LightBringer]

100% agree with this.

To me
SC MC and DC should be 0-2
AC / MR 0-1
Mana and HP (I dont even know what they are now haha)
Elemental - randomly given the maximum added (or it always gives +1 into your main element and the rest into random elements)

 

[UnluckyXIII]

A bare minimum should be elements put into groups, so a Tao for instance would select the group that offered Holy / Dark / Phantom with a chance of getting a point in any one of the stats (meaning that at least the point isn’t totally useless if it doesn’t give the specific element they want to stack, like it would be should they get Ice for example).

XIII

 

[CremeEgg82]

It was previously heavily discussed on Discord, in global and on the forums.

The consensus from almost the entire player base was that being able to choose and stack elements via Hermit Points was the cause for the majority of balance issues within the game especially when coupled with MR and accessory refining.

With the impending change to Hermit Points due in tonight's reboot giving always the maximum roll are their any plans to look at the element stacking tonight as part of the change?

My concern stems from the highest level players for instance PokerFace has +99 wind from Hermit Points. After tonights reboot its going to be what? I don't know the calculations and level brackets for element points on hermit but his total is 133 atm, I can only assume he's going to be hitting closer to 200? Then we already have Taoists with 100+ phantom and 1 hitting everything in Lair. It's been great but for the longevity of the server it needs reviewing. Element choice in Mir 3 was always random due to the power of having stacked element damage.

This will not only massively and negatively effect PvP on the server but also the PvE content. It already feels like a high rate fast levelling server and that's before were going to get a massive enhancement on our damage tonight.

Based on the numbers Jamie posted in the other thread Poker will have 115 from hermit after reboot.

---------- Post Merged at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:35 PM ----------

A bare minimum should be elements put into groups, so a Tao for instance would select the group that offered Holy / Dark / Phantom with a chance of getting a point in any one of the stats (meaning that at least the point isn’t totally useless if it doesn’t give the specific element they want to stack, like it would be should they get Ice for example).

XIII

That was always the trade off in official though, the relative damage was higher than base SC/DC/MC, but you could get any element. When I toyed with an element build in QGO Euro both live and on the test server you would just get anything, but if you managed to get 10-20 of a single element by level 70 you were in a really good spot.

The element numbers here outshine that of level 100+ players in Korea that have been playing for like 14 years.

 

[Jamie]

What I would like to do but would have so many complaints if I did.

AC/MR
Level 40~54 +1
Level 55+ +2

HP
Level 40~49 +10
Level 50~59 +20
Level 60~69 +30
...

MP
Level 40~49 +15
Level 50~59 +30
Level 60~69 +45
...

DC
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

MC/SC
Level 40~49 +1
Level 50~59 +2
Level 60~69 +3
...



Element
Warrior: Random All
Wizard: Random Fire, Lightning, Ice, Wind
Taoist: Random Holy, Dark, Illusion
Assassin: Random All
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

 

[UnluckyXIII]

What I would like to do but would have so many complaints if I did.

AC/MR
Level 40~54 +1
Level 55+ +2

HP
Level 40~49 +10
Level 50~59 +20
Level 60~69 +30
...

MP
Level 40~49 +15
Level 50~59 +30
Level 60~69 +45
...

DC
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

MC/SC
Level 40~49 +1
Level 50~59 +2
Level 60~69 +3
...



Element
Warrior: Random All
Wizard: Random Fire, Lightning, Ice, Wind
Taoist: Random Holy, Dark, Illusion
Assassin: Random All
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

So effectivly nurf the whole hermit system to bring character stats back in line and to prevent over stacking of elements in the future - would still think two buttons one offering Holy/Dark/Illusion and the other Fire/Lightning/Ice/Wind would be better or it’s totally stuffing up Sin/War from taking elements (do any currently take elements?).

XIII

 

[CremeEgg82]

What I would like to do but would have so many complaints if I did.

AC/MR
Level 40~54 +1
Level 55+ +2

HP
Level 40~49 +10
Level 50~59 +20
Level 60~69 +30
...

MP
Level 40~49 +15
Level 50~59 +30
Level 60~69 +45
...

DC
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

MC/SC
Level 40~49 +1
Level 50~59 +2
Level 60~69 +3
...



Element
Warrior: Random All
Wizard: Random Fire, Lightning, Ice, Wind
Taoist: Random Holy, Dark, Illusion
Assassin: Random All
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

Even at random elements you are double dipping, the element calculation in PvE is higher per element and you are awarding higher elements per hermit point.

You'll still never make MC the desired route.

On official, element/mc/sc were the same values from hermit (the ranges like you have now 40-49: 1-2, 50-59: 2-3 etc.), dc was higher as it is valued lower.

 

[Heetu]

I'm happy with the above instead of what's planned, and I say this as a level 33 wiz who knows I've lost an advantage that high levels have had since launch. We aren't going to be able to improve many things, for the long term, if everything is measured against it being unfair for those that haven't used the advantage. Add a EXP boast to level 45 and I'm happy to have random elements.

 

[DarkSacred]

What I would like to do but would have so many complaints if I did.

Element
Warrior: Random All
Wizard: Random Fire, Lightning, Ice, Wind
Taoist: Random Holy, Dark, Illusion
Assassin: Random All
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

100% behind this change. As a warrior this will negatively affect my ability to stack damage for JP and future damage in Lair. But in the aim of balancing the server I would rather take a hit in damage than have people running around with Element stacked as high as 150-200. Its bad for PvP and makes PvE too easy.

---------- Post Merged at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:48 PM ----------

So effectivly nurf the whole hermit system to bring character stats back in line and to prevent over stacking of elements in the future - would still think two buttons one offering Holy/Dark/Illusion and the other Fire/Lightning/Ice/Wind would be better or it’s totally stuffing up Sin/War from taking elements (do any currently take elements?).

XIII

Love this idea, so you still get some choice in what you want but are still RNG for which of the stats youll end up with.

However the editor used to design the interface windows is cumbersome and very time consuming to use, adding something as simple as a clickable button on the interface is a pain in the butt. Probably easier to have it just as plain text.

Even at random elements you are double dipping, the element calculation in PvE is higher per element and you are awarding higher elements per hermit point.

You'll still never make MC the desired route.

I guess it depends on how lucky you are. With that proposed change you would have a chance of getting your desired element but it would always prove easier and less cost intensive to go the flat MC route. You may roll 5-6 times and not get an element you want yet you know with MC you're always getting that guaranteed damage.


I assume it's still possible to reset a single hermit point and not all hermit points? This would afford Min/Maxers the ability to keep re-rolling a point over and over till they got perfect stats, maybe a nice addition for the NPC in Sabuk/GG store -dangles carrot-

 

[CremeEgg82]

I guess it depends on how lucky you are. With that proposed change you would have a chance of getting your desired element but it would always prove easier and less cost intensive to go the flat MC route. You may roll 5-6 times and not get an element you want yet you know with MC you're always getting that guaranteed damage.

At level 75 you'd have up to 120 elements via hermit, with a random standard distribution you'd be able within a few rolls to get roughly 30 of each. That would make PvP pretty hellish, Wiz could just use all skills still with pretty decent damage and you couldn't wear resists against them all.

 

[Jamie]

At level 75 you'd have up to 120 elements via hermit, with a random standard distribution you'd be able within a few rolls to get roughly 30 of each. That would make PvP pretty hellish, Wiz could just use all skills still with pretty decent damage and you couldn't wear resists against them all.

20 + 30 + 40 + 30 (10 * 2 + 10 * 3 + 10 * 4 + 6 * 5) = 120 Element, 4 Elements = 30 on each if we're talking about averages..

which is 60 Damage on each element (30 * 2)

10 + 20 + 30 + 24 (10 * 1 + 10 * 2 + 10 * 3 + 6 * 4) = MC: 84 which can then be used with % MC and Renounce(s)

which is MORE on every spell

 

[DarkSacred]

20 + 30 + 40 + 30 (10 * 2 + 10 * 3 + 10 * 4 + 6 * 5) = 120 Element, 4 Elements = 30 on each if we're talking about averages..

which is 60 Damage on each element (30 * 2)

10 + 20 + 30 + 24 (10 * 1 + 10 * 2 + 10 * 3 + 6 * 4) = MC: 84 which can then be used with % MC and Renounce(s)

which is MORE on every spell

Which is how it should be, Element was always higher risk but bigger reward. Going flat MC was safer but less damage on specific spells (assuming you got a perfect roll on the Element you want vs MC)

 

[Skyline]

What I would like to do but would have so many complaints if I did.

AC/MR
Level 40~54 +1
Level 55+ +2

HP
Level 40~49 +10
Level 50~59 +20
Level 60~69 +30
...

MP
Level 40~49 +15
Level 50~59 +30
Level 60~69 +45
...

DC
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

MC/SC
Level 40~49 +1
Level 50~59 +2
Level 60~69 +3
...



Element
Warrior: Random All
Wizard: Random Fire, Lightning, Ice, Wind
Taoist: Random Holy, Dark, Illusion
Assassin: Random All
Level 40~49 +2
Level 50~59 +3
Level 60~69 +4
...

As much as I'd agree with it, it would ruin my MR and mean I can't hunt in the dungeons I do now. Lvl47 with 14 MR from Hermit. Would near half that, losing me 6 MR. I'm sure there will be quite a few people in the same position as me here.
Therefore putting me back a cave, less EXP taking longer to level. Whilst the higher levels who started before me (and others) managed to hunt in better places using their Hermit as an advantage before the nerf.

Problem you have is, this change has come too late imo.

 

[Jamie]

Problem you have is, this change has come too late imo.

I understand your point, however failing to act because of this would only solidify the issue.

 

[Skyline]

I understand your point, however failing to act because of this would only solidify the issue.

My suggestion would be... If you make these changes don't reset peoples current Hermit points.
That way, we only lose out due to this change if/when we decide to re-roll them.

What problem would that cause? (I have no idea what people currently have, I don't tend to take any notice of other players!)

 

[Piff1]

No stop changing ****, I like how things are going to be max now so everybody gets the full reward out of leveling without spending money + exp or waiting untill they are 0%. Can't change **** thats had such an effect on people leveling so far into the server.

 

[Jamie]

Can't change **** thats had such an effect on people leveling so far into the server.

Actually I can.

 

[Lionsm!ght]

No stop changing ****, I like how things are going to be max now so everybody gets the full reward out of leveling without spending money + exp or waiting untill they are 0%. Can't change **** thats had such an effect on people leveling so far into the server.

its 2month old, it needs sorting asap rather than waiting even longer

 

[Kazababy]

Please put these changes in!!!!

 

[starfish2]

I understand your point, however failing to act because of this would only solidify the issue.

its ok if you can reset all our levels, there is people who got 60 or 70 using those elements, but how is this going to balance people trying to catch up to them?

if you gona do a change that massive, then reset everyone to level 1 so they got an even start.