TO ZED And the developer of the MIR3 server

Mu online season 21 - grand opening

wxypk2009

Banned
Banned
Jan 15, 2017
147
7
44
We love games, and are willing to support Zed’s games.
I am happy that we can participate in the improvement of the quality of the game. We have some ideas for the current development of the game, and hope to communicate with you and your development team. These discussions are summarized into a few points, namely server operations, classes balance, and game content.

1. Server Operation
• Update maintenance: Please ensure that your content update cycle, so that it is convenient for players to arrange life events accordingly, rather than sudden updates, which will affect players (dedicated) real-life arrangement. A good time and progress planning are essential for a project as such, otherwise the work will be a mess. Exceptions can be made for emergency updates.

• Understand income is needed to maintain and sustain the server. So, do you have any idea on the future development of the cash shop? Can the cash shop items be traded freely? Can the game currency be purchased using real cash? You need to give players a plan and announcement on what you planning to do moving forward.

2. Class Balance
This is something that every game needs to consider, and is a data intensive task. What have been done now (although is not too bad) has caused some problems to arise. If you noticed, tons of players have switched to warrior, after you deliberately empowered warrior in a way that is so different from the original Mir 3 setting. This can easily collapse the game, as it would be impossible for you to “reverse the damage” (i.e. restate warrior’s setting), which will hurt many players.

• At this stage, Warrior is the most popular and power class, with the highest HP, AC, MR, and DPS. You need to give players a reason to NOT pick to play as a warrior. Warrior need weakness, Just like the Wizard has lesser HP, the Taoist has only burst damage in the medium term, and the Assassin has less HP and less defense. As you can see, these other classes have weaknesses. The way you modified warrior strayed too far from the original Mir 3 system, that warrior is too perfect now. It has no weaknesses.

At present, you should restore warrior’s defiance ability back to its original state, and equipment should be used to supplement the defensive role, so that warrior become the team's tanks. Elements attack has always been Wizard and Taoist’s output damage, but you have added elements to the warrior weapons, which is very incomprehensible. Why should you give a DC-centric class an element weapon?

• Taoist: Since the beginning of Mir 3, Taoist’s positioning has always been auxiliary. But it has been strengthened by AOE attacks in zircon. Taoist is already strong enough. But we can accept that its attack should not be explosive, so other professions have a chance to overcome it.

• Wizard needs some time to grind until level 49 to learn tempest. He will become a god-like existence. Wizard needs to grind, but the process of grinding is very boring. The current open map makes the Master not have enough room for activities, and his DPS is as obvious as his weakness. But the increase in the hermit point HP must be weakened as wizard can't increase its HP like other professions.

• Assassin: Noticed that you have removed an assassination skill - Karma – from assassin’s skill list. This is Assassin’s core ability, and removing it has changed assassins from a PVP class to a PVE career. To recap, assassin class is close to unplayable in the late game due to its limited growth linearity after hitting Lv50. We would suggest you nerf its life-stealing ability, and restore Karma back to its skill list. The strength of assassins in the early stage is mainly due to its output dependency on MP. Given that MP has no lower limit, Assassin’s output is very stable.

The strength of assassins in the early stage is mainly due to its output dependency on MP. Given that MP has no lower limit, Assassin’s output is very stable.





Source: Players experiences based on Mir3-gsp and Zircon.

3. Game Content
• Map releases and experience should be tested more rigorously before release. Testing shall include the matching between different classes and different equipment and level, to asses the effect of each. Based on the current system, you and your development team may hope that all classes can have the ability to leveling and hunt on their own. However, it is impossible to do it consistently as a class can only fully awaken its ability in a group play. As such, you must encourage team formation and encourage players to team up with different classes. This will attract higher participation from real-life friends, and can also awaken the characteristics of each classes. Please do not make this a single player game as it can be very boring. Mir 3 does not have the characteristics of AAA games.

• With regards to the current level gap, this will make the game to enter the decline stage very quickly. If players were to multi a same character, the multi-ed character will have an unfair advantage as compared to other players because Mir 3 is a “level game”. High-level players will play a decisive role in PK and PVE, which will affect the game experience of many people. It should limit the time for players to gain experience, such as 15 hours per day.


In the end, we hope that the game mechanism encourages the cooperation of different classes and not solo, and then vent.
 

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zedina

Mir3 Dev
Legendary
Dec 22, 2005
3,259
2
1,152
370
We love games, and are willing to support Zed’s games.
I am happy that we can participate in the improvement of the quality of the game. We have some ideas for the current development of the game, and hope to communicate with you and your development team. These discussions are summarized into a few points, namely server operations, classes balance, and game content.

1. Server Operation
• Update maintenance: Please ensure that your content update cycle, so that it is convenient for players to arrange life events accordingly, rather than sudden updates, which will affect players (dedicated) real-life arrangement. A good time and progress planning are essential for a project as such, otherwise the work will be a mess. Exceptions can be made for emergency updates.

• Understand income is needed to maintain and sustain the server. So, do you have any idea on the future development of the cash shop? Can the cash shop items be traded freely? Can the game currency be purchased using real cash? You need to give players a plan and announcement on what you planning to do moving forward.

2. Class Balance
This is something that every game needs to consider, and is a data intensive task. What have been done now (although is not too bad) has caused some problems to arise. If you noticed, tons of players have switched to warrior, after you deliberately empowered warrior in a way that is so different from the original Mir 3 setting. This can easily collapse the game, as it would be impossible for you to “reverse the damage” (i.e. restate warrior’s setting), which will hurt many players.

• At this stage, Warrior is the most popular and power class, with the highest HP, AC, MR, and DPS. You need to give players a reason to NOT pick to play as a warrior. Warrior need weakness, Just like the Wizard has lesser HP, the Taoist has only burst damage in the medium term, and the Assassin has less HP and less defense. As you can see, these other classes have weaknesses. The way you modified warrior strayed too far from the original Mir 3 system, that warrior is too perfect now. It has no weaknesses.

At present, you should restore warrior’s defiance ability back to its original state, and equipment should be used to supplement the defensive role, so that warrior become the team's tanks. Elements attack has always been Wizard and Taoist’s output damage, but you have added elements to the warrior weapons, which is very incomprehensible. Why should you give a DC-centric class an element weapon?

• Taoist: Since the beginning of Mir 3, Taoist’s positioning has always been auxiliary. But it has been strengthened by AOE attacks in zircon. Taoist is already strong enough. But we can accept that its attack should not be explosive, so other professions have a chance to overcome it.

• Wizard needs some time to grind until level 49 to learn tempest. He will become a god-like existence. Wizard needs to grind, but the process of grinding is very boring. The current open map makes the Master not have enough room for activities, and his DPS is as obvious as his weakness. But the increase in the hermit point HP must be weakened as wizard can't increase its HP like other professions.

• Assassin: Noticed that you have removed an assassination skill - Karma – from assassin’s skill list. This is Assassin’s core ability, and removing it has changed assassins from a PVP class to a PVE career. To recap, assassin class is close to unplayable in the late game due to its limited growth linearity after hitting Lv50. We would suggest you nerf its life-stealing ability, and restore Karma back to its skill list. The strength of assassins in the early stage is mainly due to its output dependency on MP. Given that MP has no lower limit, Assassin’s output is very stable.

The strength of assassins in the early stage is mainly due to its output dependency on MP. Given that MP has no lower limit, Assassin’s output is very stable.





Source: Players experiences based on Mir3-gsp and Zircon.

3. Game Content
• Map releases and experience should be tested more rigorously before release. Testing shall include the matching between different classes and different equipment and level, to asses the effect of each. Based on the current system, you and your development team may hope that all classes can have the ability to leveling and hunt on their own. However, it is impossible to do it consistently as a class can only fully awaken its ability in a group play. As such, you must encourage team formation and encourage players to team up with different classes. This will attract higher participation from real-life friends, and can also awaken the characteristics of each classes. Please do not make this a single player game as it can be very boring. Mir 3 does not have the characteristics of AAA games.

• With regards to the current level gap, this will make the game to enter the decline stage very quickly. If players were to multi a same character, the multi-ed character will have an unfair advantage as compared to other players because Mir 3 is a “level game”. High-level players will play a decisive role in PK and PVE, which will affect the game experience of many people. It should limit the time for players to gain experience, such as 15 hours per day.


In the end, we hope that the game mechanism encourages the cooperation of different classes and not solo, and then vent.


Thank you. I had readed this on the morning coffee, will look to revise something based on your very detailed report.
 

ventus

LOMCN Veteran
Veteran
Oct 17, 2013
974
175
105
He even included a chart, this is truely what you call hardcore :P Very nice, well thought out thread.
 
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Vyse

Golden Oldie
Golden Oldie
Apr 29, 2004
902
256
250
Manchester/Stockport
@wxypk2009


1. Server Operation
• To be fair that was one of the reasons I left was a lot of reboots the first week which happens when a server first goes live and it wasn't all Zeds fault as he was being attacked constantly.


2. Class Balance
During testing which I was a part of we tried the Warrior and other classes in stages from low-high in my opinion now I think that it is the wrong way to do testing and that we should have done High-Low to make sure after all the tweaks zed made on the testers feedback didn't mess up the early game too greatly.

• As for Warriors during the test they seemed very tanky but lacked damage which made them unable to kill people very easy so they did need a slight buff to their combo, however on launch onward they have received a large number of buffs to their spells which might have put them in a situation where they are stronger than Zircon and GSP but they were always that strong on older versions of Mir3.

Reverting Defiance to Zircon style would be a huge nerf to the class given that there is no accessory refinement and the low AC, MR on items on Zeds server. As for elements on weapons why shouldn't warriors get a few element on weapons just because something worked different doesn't mean it should stay that way forever I think zed is just trying to balance the classes and dodgy items so that their useful .

• Taoist: was fine when I was playing.

• Wizard was fine when I was playing.

• Assassin: was a bit strong when I was playing because of CD on DOS which zed increased to fix the class along with what ever other changes he made in last few weeks.


Source: Players experiences based on Mir3-gsp and Zircon and every other version of Mir since Mir2.

3. Game Content
• Map releases and experience should be tested more rigorously before release I did share my concerns about Zed rushing release after swapping to the Zircon files and from what I hear he still has some issues causing map bugs, I dare say he will fix it at some point though. But yeah I agree more testing should have been done once he swapped files and re-balanced the classes.

• Their will always be a levelling gap on every game not just Mir as their should be those who put in more time and effort get the rewards of doing so. though I do agree that the bigger a gap the more of a put off it can be to new players or those who work and cannot commit as much time to the game. I do like it when the game is more group orientated as it does get boring solo playing your way throughout all the content.


Anyway their are some responses and feedback from an Ex ZentaurX player.
 
Last edited:

zedina

Mir3 Dev
Legendary
Dec 22, 2005
3,259
2
1,152
370
Sins - the way they went on Mana now, are limited on higher levels as they will have only two gears (Vigor/Numa)

Warriors - the defiance they got now, makes them tanky which is good. Chinese complaints about Warrior but Warrior does the less EXP from all 4Classes.

Wizzards - was fine, now is more fine with FrostVillage/Camp exp increased on mobs

Taoists - they are nice, have to grind for 45 to enter on FrostDungeon, but once they are on that. Its fine.


My only concern now :

1. Sins will eventually switch to DC which will not be compared to the Mana DC
2. Bosses needs a revamp
3. Group EXP needs to be re-done to encourage group playing.
 

Piff1

Legend
Veteran
Apr 17, 2015
2,895
463
145
Africa
Sins - the way they went on Mana now, are limited on higher levels as they will have only two gears (Vigor/Numa)

Warriors - the defiance they got now, makes them tanky which is good. Chinese complaints about Warrior but Warrior does the less EXP from all 4Classes.

Wizzards - was fine, now is more fine with FrostVillage/Camp exp increased on mobs

Taoists - they are nice, have to grind for 45 to enter on FrostDungeon, but once they are on that. Its fine.


My only concern now :

1. Sins will eventually switch to DC which will not be compared to the Mana DC
2. Bosses needs a revamp
3. Group EXP needs to be re-done to encourage group playing.

Wouldn't worry to much about Sins going over to DC, same happened on Zircon once people got bored of using 3 spells they settled into DC kit very quickly. Stacking mana only went on until level 50ish then most went over to DC.
 
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LightBringer

Mir Evolved GM
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Evolved
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Feb 13, 2014
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Also as luck became more obtainable on Zircon was the switch to DC as well, not sure what its like to get it on ZenX though
 

zedina

Mir3 Dev
Legendary
Dec 22, 2005
3,259
2
1,152
370
Also as luck became more obtainable on Zircon was the switch to DC as well, not sure what its like to get it on ZenX though

It's same.

We got lots of Sin Advisors who says "nerf sins" but they play warriors.

Blossoms are 40% DC 60% Mana with poor luck implemented. Means you will hit your top dmg on every bloom. Take luck out of Sins -> 300 DMG on 1 single Target while Warrior does a total dmg swing of DS to 1000.
 
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