Detailed Video on why Wizards need looking at
- Thread starter Koriban
- Start date
- Mar 25, 2003
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Good point Koriban, why does MR not work against Blizzard / Met strike? surely this could be a possible resolution? I remember when nearly everyone wore a tiger neck when archers were running the show.
- Feb 15, 2010
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In no circumstance should a wizz EVER be able to 4 hit FF A warrior in nice kit with 1000+hp to death.
It should be the other way around, MR should be aoe only imho.
but the reason why MR doesn't work on AOE i believe is due to bosses like EM would be so much easier with 30-40% magic resist (Most boss use aoe not single target attacks).
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The problem is it has to be this way, or warriors will just pot regen, and due to warriors being able to carry 4x as many pots they will most likely last out the fight longer than a wiz will. I would just RT/TT in this scenario as it's not worth wasting pots for nothing.
Shorter burst fights I would find way more fun, if the warrior reaches me and FS me and i die, then well played to him. Then if I timed my FF's well and knocked him down before he could FS me or SD away then I played well, however wiz seem to be able to tank reasonably well.
Also, if 1 class can 1 shot another, then why not the other way round. Warrior can 1 shot wiz(unless shield is up), so I think it's fair a wizard can 4 shot a warrior.
Quote Originally Posted by Varaka View Post
The vid is biased, when pvp in mob maps it is a lot different. Bliz / met are useless cause of cast flinch thing. FF does not consistently hit good even with MB which only last 20 seconds an has a cooldown!. The range mobs are beating on shield with a well timed TBD / FS can pop the wiz. Look at your RME vid if it was so easy for a wiz to outpot damage why didn't he just stand still shield up spam FF and let the other 3 wars smash you? oh he flopped to tdb.
He flopped to a flamesword without his shield up, actually. All prior TDB's didn't make him drop at all through his shield.a
As i said before in this case RME beating his shield and you poped him with a well timed FS.
Any class can use a puri water which aint cheap to gain another 100hp. You don't see wiz armours with + 200hp do you.
relative health pool of a wizz is meant to be low. Currently you can negate this low healthpool with puri waters. Shouldn't be the case.
Wiz hp is low, at lvl 53 i still have under 300hp!! i get my hp from Lion belt, hp rune shoes and Armour which is very rare!
Chances of a lvl 47 wiz killing a lvl 53 Warrior? NONE, yet you want a lvl 47 war with equivalent kit to a 53 wiz to be on an equal pvp platform. With lvl 3 rage what will Kens DC be? 150? (125...3 more dc than the video showed) and you only need lvl 50 for that. lvl 52 for lvl MB, which only 3 wiz ingame have as the other 2 quit or got banned.
I pvped with Ken last week and he was way better than that.(Maybe you were worse? ) In a Cave fight there is also the option to LR the clone and pop it = Wiz no mana or has to use up sunpots to keep clone alive. (LR para wears off, it's Entrap that needs to be done on a clone but you need to be adjacent and when you cast it the wizz will cast blizz/met on your ass and watch you hit 2 normal hits on their clone due to the delay that was discussed on another thread) In a cave fight, warriors can get flinched too which makes it even harder to get next to the wizz. In your vid @ rme fight you were both getting flinched but you were defo more on the offensive. Not hard getting next to a wiz when you got dash.
What about Toriblack's (sin) vids when he is smashing the **** out of DD's wizards. (Notice he never pops them at all until shield goes down?) A shield with a good kit sin doesn't last very long. Ok and the wiz will FF but ull need some nice kit on the wiz to make them retreat.
If wiz want consistent FF they take RMS which in turn gimps Bliz / met damage (But it doesn't because MagicBooster gives 24-24mc, there's no drawback to wearing anything atm), which I see less and less wiz using because of cancel on flinch.If this was the case then why is there a divide on how each wiz kits up? Lkira/ Adaephon prefer rms Myself and EW2 prefer BOS. 24-24 MB yeah big flipping wow, we worked our arses off lvling to get this. You want some more pewpew then go grind it. You cant jump from boss to boss and get lvls. Pick one. Look @ Lkira lvl 55 soon 56, all she does is sit in pt 3f all day and night boring as **** but if she enjoys it w/e. Someone from Team Pmed her last week and said come fight Colossus. " Her response " whats that?" lmao
Black = Original post
Red = Koriban Response
Blue = Varaka Response.
The vid is biased, when pvp in mob maps it is a lot different. Bliz / met are useless cause of cast flinch thing. FF does not consistently hit good even with MB which only last 20 seconds an has a cooldown!. The range mobs are beating on shield with a well timed TBD / FS can pop the wiz. Look at your RME vid if it was so easy for a wiz to outpot damage why didn't he just stand still shield up spam FF and let the other 3 wars smash you? oh he flopped to tdb.
He flopped to a flamesword without his shield up, actually. All prior TDB's didn't make him drop at all through his shield.a
As i said before in this case RME beating his shield and you poped him with a well timed FS.
Any class can use a puri water which aint cheap to gain another 100hp. You don't see wiz armours with + 200hp do you.
relative health pool of a wizz is meant to be low. Currently you can negate this low healthpool with puri waters. Shouldn't be the case.
Wiz hp is low, at lvl 53 i still have under 300hp!! i get my hp from Lion belt, hp rune shoes and Armour which is very rare!
Chances of a lvl 47 wiz killing a lvl 53 Warrior? NONE, yet you want a lvl 47 war with equivalent kit to a 53 wiz to be on an equal pvp platform. With lvl 3 rage what will Kens DC be? 150? (125...3 more dc than the video showed) and you only need lvl 50 for that. lvl 52 for lvl MB, which only 3 wiz ingame have as the other 2 quit or got banned.
I pvped with Ken last week and he was way better than that.(Maybe you were worse? ) In a Cave fight there is also the option to LR the clone and pop it = Wiz no mana or has to use up sunpots to keep clone alive. (LR para wears off, it's Entrap that needs to be done on a clone but you need to be adjacent and when you cast it the wizz will cast blizz/met on your ass and watch you hit 2 normal hits on their clone due to the delay that was discussed on another thread) In a cave fight, warriors can get flinched too which makes it even harder to get next to the wizz. In your vid @ rme fight you were both getting flinched but you were defo more on the offensive. Not hard getting next to a wiz when you got dash.
What about Toriblack's (sin) vids when he is smashing the **** out of DD's wizards. (Notice he never pops them at all until shield goes down?) A shield with a good kit sin doesn't last very long. Ok and the wiz will FF but ull need some nice kit on the wiz to make them retreat.
If wiz want consistent FF they take RMS which in turn gimps Bliz / met damage (But it doesn't because MagicBooster gives 24-24mc, there's no drawback to wearing anything atm), which I see less and less wiz using because of cancel on flinch.If this was the case then why is there a divide on how each wiz kits up? Lkira/ Adaephon prefer rms Myself and EW2 prefer BOS. 24-24 MB yeah big flipping wow, we worked our arses off lvling to get this. You want some more pewpew then go grind it. You cant jump from boss to boss and get lvls. Pick one. Look @ Lkira lvl 55 soon 56, all she does is sit in pt 3f all day and night boring as **** but if she enjoys it w/e. Someone from Team Pmed her last week and said come fight Colossus. " Her response " whats that?" lmao
Black = Original post
Red = Koriban Response
Blue = Varaka Response.
I don't think this video really shows a great deal tbh. Sure FF is strong, and hit hard, but unless I am mistaken the mc was 51-80-something? I would be pretty livid as a wiz if I had that mc and my FF was doing **** all.
And as people always seem to do, which is my biggest pet hate when people try to test balance etc. Why do you use one of the best kitted wizards? If anything is nerfed now it severely effects the average kitted wiz that isn't level 50-whatever with top tier kit. Even if maybe FF is a touch OP or wiz are a tad too good; using one of the highest/best kitted players is not the way too prove it. They should be hitting hard and have power over others, otherwise they've completely wasted their time levelling and hunting better kit.
And as people always seem to do, which is my biggest pet hate when people try to test balance etc. Why do you use one of the best kitted wizards? If anything is nerfed now it severely effects the average kitted wiz that isn't level 50-whatever with top tier kit. Even if maybe FF is a touch OP or wiz are a tad too good; using one of the highest/best kitted players is not the way too prove it. They should be hitting hard and have power over others, otherwise they've completely wasted their time levelling and hunting better kit.
This +1
I remember the old days when i was 10 lvls higher than a warrior and blasting them and they would just stand there regen pots and laugh.
That's what I'm saying. It's all well and good being powerful and die quickly (lets face it majority of wizzies die quick...) but when you get to "god-status" there's no way of mitigating some of that damage, where as every other classes "god-status" has a way of negating it at least in some way (agil/MR/PR) so it's at least got a counter to it. Yes. Warriors deal insane upfront damage when they have DC130 speed7 and they earn that but at the same time they need a fair bit of acc just to be able to hit assassins in agil kit or infact just any class who stacks enough agility on their kit. Even just missing one hit is a huge blow to the warriors PK potential.
Even if this thing was created to mitigate had to be earned/gemmed onto kits it'd be acceptable because it'd at least be an option to the squishy classes that have zero chance vs wizzies.
I don't struggle vs wizzies, I made this primarily to show just how quickly every other class dies to end-game wizzies (if it's 4-5FF's for 1000HP, imagine the poor sods with 500HP) and it's they who are getting the short end of the stick, not warriors. Warriors are infact the only class able to handle themselves vs wizards.
I've had Joe remove access from the character out of anger because he feels cheated, when in reality this is all for the benefit of the server, not for me and to not allow the game to get out of balance. You cannot ask a person how they feel about their class being OP without them immediately defending it, so in order to get a proper sense of balance you have to take it into your own hands and do the proper testing.
I remember the days when I moaned and moaned at Samuel to buff wizards during that time, too (AS A WARRIOR) In fact I'll happily dig the PM's/Threads up where I clearly state wizards are in a trash state, and I eventually convinced him to majorly buff Lightning and FlameDisruptor.
I care about the servers balance, not about my own gains. If I can kill lkira (video soon to come btw boys!) without rage I'm fine.
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- Feb 20, 2009
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i have said before that magic booster makes the wizard use double mp when activated for example
Magicbooster on :
FF USES 400 MP
Magicbooster off:
FF uses 200mp
Magicbooster on :
FF USES 400 MP
Magicbooster off:
FF uses 200mp
- Dec 6, 2013
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Not to pick holes in this disagreement but sin/archer/tao could "grind it" to those levels and still not have that killing power.
I appreciate that higher levels should have an advantage but when one class' advantage is much greater than another for similar work (if not easier as a wiz) then thats where balance steps in and shows its ugly face.
That's not entirely true, there are some of us that can look at it objectively.
Its a shame some people do fall on the defense when they think they are "entitled" to face roll. *not aimed at you varaka btw*
nonesense, ive NEVER seen ken that timid in a fight, this is a setup.
---------- Post Merged at 04:30 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:29 PM ----------
FF uses 66 mp, so...132
The reality that if the wizard NEVER moved just pressed Flame Field and shield buttons they would face tank and kill the sin every time...Notice 2 hits (and they were not even good hits) notice how long it took to kill the wiz through shield? That was with a luck+5 level 43 blades.
The only way I have even a hope when I go against a wiz is hp kit, + puri water (so I don't get 1 hit) and a bag of suns...If the wiz actually played defensively I would have no hope.
The only way I have even a hope when I go against a wiz is hp kit, + puri water (so I don't get 1 hit) and a bag of suns...If the wiz actually played defensively I would have no hope.
- Nov 7, 2007
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FlameField needs a biggier delay IMO, i never understood why Wizards AOE is 10x stronger then any of their single target skills.
As for the video..
1v1 PVP = Range classs win
Group PVP = Melee classes win
Remove flinch/walk and this will fix it self.
As for the video..
1v1 PVP = Range classs win
Group PVP = Melee classes win
Remove flinch/walk and this will fix it self.
Atm I'm fighting iNoob (Sin) as we are chasing the same bosses and when it's 1v1 ive killed him a few times and he's caught me a couple of times also.
I am defensive on my wiz I wont lie, But I do read and think about other players views. after a long time grinding lvls and help from guild / friends with items its like the reward for all the time spent. Real PVP on a wiz is not a walk in the park. There is excitement on both ends, The staying alive and time to nuke.
- Dec 6, 2013
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My main issue is speed, a fast wiz is more deadly to me than a fast war.
considering you are faster than 81% of Briton with a Ping of 1. you are combining OP skills with OP speed to make everything feel even more OP than it may actually be.
Yo sam, I post the official data about the magicbooster before.
Level 0 consume 6% more
Level 1 consume 7% more
Level 2 consume 8% more
Level 3 consume 9% more.
For koriban, stop moaning about wiz is OP. You know what, even without FF, I can simply firewall all place and consume all your pot. Do you want to nerf firewall too?
It is mir and it is all about tactics. I just do not understand why you are moaning about it.
On the other hand, You post a video saying you can fight with 4 person. Can I say warrior need to be nerfed?
I believe classes are well balanced so far and archer do need to be looked into. but I have seen archer can do more than 600+ damage with AB one shot level 46 taoist nowadays.
Can you (Sam, BH or Li) test damage with all +3 items too. It seems long term players could reach to the-end game nowadays, Which is reasonable since they spend more time in the server than the rest.
Level 0 consume 6% more
Level 1 consume 7% more
Level 2 consume 8% more
Level 3 consume 9% more.
For koriban, stop moaning about wiz is OP. You know what, even without FF, I can simply firewall all place and consume all your pot. Do you want to nerf firewall too?
It is mir and it is all about tactics. I just do not understand why you are moaning about it.
On the other hand, You post a video saying you can fight with 4 person. Can I say warrior need to be nerfed?
I believe classes are well balanced so far and archer do need to be looked into. but I have seen archer can do more than 600+ damage with AB one shot level 46 taoist nowadays.
Can you (Sam, BH or Li) test damage with all +3 items too. It seems long term players could reach to the-end game nowadays, Which is reasonable since they spend more time in the server than the rest.
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