Balance Discussion

[Adv]

Sorry for multiple posts, but Jamie probably refers to "sins struggling" in PvP, not PvE. Probably down to FD mechanic and flinch being 1/1.

Maybe remove 1 of the 'walk after hit' steps for warrior and sin to give them slightly more mobility to catch ranges classes.

Wiz/tao get hit - 3 steps before running.

War/sin 2 steps then running.

Just give t a try. Can always be reversed if it's OP.


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[Hastelloy]

The calculations are Official, and even its even exactly the same as crystal files (unless changed). So as far as I am concerned nothing here needs to change.

I have to agree with Kori. I cannot remember a server Mir2/3 or otherwise, all the way back to orig mir2 where repulse/dash would ever fail at level 3 if the user was a higher level than the opponent. It would fail 1/3 ish times if they were the same level but that was it.

I don't understand, so now that some wizards have FF and Bliz, all others need to have a nerf? It's not like you can cast FF /Bliz and Vamp at the same time.

That's not the point, when you look at PvP this is the only server I have played where Vamp is the wiz's first port of call. It's just not right. The single target damage should be FD or Tbolt for the lower levels. Perhaps try reducing the vs player bonus from +20% to +5%? Wiz have a plethora of utility spells and dps spells and Vamp has never been DPS. Either reduce it or maybe change it to a HoT?

Since when does PoisonCloud Crit? It cannot. It may do increased damage to undead if the Taoist has Holy but thats about it...

It doesn't. I believe Kori has misunderstood when I say im critting. PC has a min - max hit. Due to the weird way that luck works on here, PC is very unreliable in its damage spread. So this one will be my fault as I term a max hit as a crit. Although while we are on the subject of PC, can you correct the tooltip please so that it is accurate. You're just missing a /2 in your formula i.e. if a tao has 20-100 sc the tooltip will say 20-100 damage when in reality it is 10-50?

Why are you trying to think/suggest a nerf for another class when they are already struggling.

Please explain in what way, shape or form Sins are struggling on here

 

[Koriban]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Jamie]

I have to agree with Kori. I cannot remember a server Mir2/3 or otherwise, all the way back to orig mir2 where repulse/dash would ever fail at level 3 if the user was a higher level than the opponent. It would fail 1/3 ish times if they were the same level but that was it.

The fact you remember it failing is proof of my point, You could never repel someone the same level only on here.

---------- Post Merged at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:09 PM ----------

Although while we are on the subject of PC, can you correct the tooltip please so that it is accurate. You're just missing a /2 in your formula i.e. if a tao has 20-100 sc the tooltip will say 20-100 damage when in reality it is 10-50?

PoisonCloud = 2 Ticks per Second at 50% SC... The tool tip says 100% SC per second, but i guess there is a round issue where if you have 53 SC the damage would be 26 + 26 (52 Damage per second), but that's not what your talking about here.

 

[Xiler]

I have to agree with Kori. I cannot remember a server Mir2/3 or otherwise, all the way back to orig mir2 where repulse/dash would ever fail at level 3 if the user was a higher level than the opponent. It would fail 1/3 ish times if they were the same level but that was it.

To repulse a player on mir2 you always had to be a higher level than them. If you are a higher level than them you always repulsed them 100% of the time.

 

[Koriban]

To repulse a player on mir2 you always had to be a higher level than them. If you are a higher level than them you always repulsed them 100% of the time.

Jamie remembers this differently for some reason, but everyone I've spoken to has said this.

 

[Jamie]

Jamie remembers this differently for some reason, but everyone I've spoken to has said this.

It's even like this on the official source.

function TMagicManager.MagPushAround(user: TCreature; pushlevel: integer): integer;
var
  i, ndir, levelgap, push: integer;
  cret: TCreature;
begin
  Result := 0;
  for i := 0 to user.VisibleActors.Count - 1 do begin
    cret := TCreature(PTVisibleActor(user.VisibleActors[i]).cret);
    if (abs(user.CX - cret.CX) <= 1) and (abs(user.CY - cret.CY) <= 1) then begin
      if (not cret.Death) and (cret <> user) then begin
        if (user.Abil.Level > cret.Abil.Level) and (not cret.StickMode) then begin
          levelgap := user.Abil.Level - cret.Abil.Level;
          if (Random(20) < 6 + pushlevel * 3 + levelgap) then begin  //¼ö·ÃÁ¤µµ¿¡ µû¶ó¼*
            if user.IsProperTarget(cret) then begin
              push := 1 + _MAX(0, pushlevel - 1) + Random(2);
              ndir := GetNextDirection(user.CX, user.CY, cret.CX, cret.CY);
              cret.CharPushed(ndir, push);
              Inc(Result);
            end;
          end;
        end;
      end;
    end;
  end;
end;

Specifically:

levelgap := user.Abil.Level - cret.Abil.Level;
if (Random(20) < 6 + pushlevel * 3 + levelgap) then begin  //¼ö·ÃÁ¤µµ¿¡ µû¶ó¼*

 

[Piff1]

I never on euro mir failed to dash somebody lower level than me, either i had the craziest RNG for 8 years playing euro or your forgetting some stuff Jamie lol. Unless its back to like pre 1.7 patch or something i can't remebmer this ever happening.

 

[Londex]

Official Euro Mir if you were higher lvl you 100% repelled or sdashed, if it had a fail chance it must have been astronomically low at lvl 3 of the spell as I never failed it once ever.

 

[Koriban]

It's even like this on the official source.

function TMagicManager.MagPushAround(user: TCreature; pushlevel: integer): integer;
var
  i, ndir, levelgap, push: integer;
  cret: TCreature;
begin
  Result := 0;
  for i := 0 to user.VisibleActors.Count - 1 do begin
    cret := TCreature(PTVisibleActor(user.VisibleActors[i]).cret);
    if (abs(user.CX - cret.CX) <= 1) and (abs(user.CY - cret.CY) <= 1) then begin
      if (not cret.Death) and (cret <> user) then begin
        if (user.Abil.Level > cret.Abil.Level) and (not cret.StickMode) then begin
          levelgap := user.Abil.Level - cret.Abil.Level;
          if (Random(20) < 6 + pushlevel * 3 + levelgap) then begin  //¼ö·ÃÁ¤µµ¿¡ µû¶ó¼*
            if user.IsProperTarget(cret) then begin
              push := 1 + _MAX(0, pushlevel - 1) + Random(2);
              ndir := GetNextDirection(user.CX, user.CY, cret.CX, cret.CY);
              cret.CharPushed(ndir, push);
              Inc(Result);
            end;
          end;
        end;
      end;
    end;
  end;
end;

Specifically:

levelgap := user.Abil.Level - cret.Abil.Level;
if (Random(20) < 6 + pushlevel * 3 + levelgap) then begin  //¼ö·ÃÁ¤µµ¿¡ µû¶ó¼*

What version of the official source are you quoting from?

Fairly certain this got patched out in Spider patch.

 

[Jamie]

What version of the official source are you quoting from?

Fairly certain this got patched out in Spider patch.

This source has EvilMir, BDD, OK, MTK, Yimoogi, Fox's (Pretty much last patch of Euro)

 

[Koriban]

Why is it everyone remembers differently? The only other successful private servers put up have it like this as well o.O

 

[Rand]

My thoughts so far on balance from the perspective of highest wizz ingame without paying people to ****ing level me, **** you Lkira/Varaka (not salty at all :lemo

Wizz/Tao/Sin repulse and ShoulderDash.

Now, from what I recall, if you were higher level than someone you would always 1/1 push them. On here however, you can actually fail to dash or repulse someone even if you're 1, 2 or 3 levels higher than someone.
Personally, I think that's wrong. Shouldn't ever be punished for putting in the time to level your character.
If you're the same level as someone else, you can actually still dash/repulse them on here. Personally I think that's fine - and would accept it failing now and then if that were the case. But not lower levels.

Agree

Blade Avalanche

This spell - is pretty cool. If it crits, it does some crazy damage (roughly 130dmg through shield!). However, I don't agree with it applying Slow/Blue. It's already a ranged spell used to flinch. Adding this onto it is, frankly, overkill.
The same would apply to sins Crescent Slash if that's the same (doesn't appear to be though)

BA is a physical attack so the fact wars can slow that explains why they can

Vampirism

This spell needs a nerf. Gotta be honest, it was needed during the lower levels, but now that level 3 FF and blizz etc is getting to be the norm, it's just not needed. Wizzies should be known for their AoE prowess. Not single target. I recommend removing the bonus damage to players.

Wizz before FF and Bliz need this

Poison Cloud

I'm probably going to get ****ing blasted by tao's for saying this (sorry in advanced), but this does not need to crit. It's true damage, doesn't make you flinch, can't be resisted damage and can be spammed.
Remove the "chance to crit" mechanic.

PC doesn't have a crit mechanic

Swift Feet?

Couldn't really think of anything for sins lol. Maybe add a cd on this so they can't use it permanently. Even if its a small downtime, doesn't really matter - stops them being too zippy.

With the targetting on here, l don't really see a problem with flinching a sin

--

Well, that's it. Feel free to abuse/berate and so forth. Or you could leave constructive criticism but hey, this is LOMCN. I won't get my hopes up :confusion:

My 2 cents in red.

x

 

[Adv]

Why is it everyone remembers differently? The only other successful private servers put up have it like this as well o.O

He doesn't care what's the better method or setup of how things work, what gives better QoL or what makes the game more fun... just aslong as it's inline with "official" it's seen as being the best thing since sliced bread.

Blinkers are well and truly on in that regard.

+1 to the long list of Euro players who have never seen a lvl3 rep/dash fail on a lower player. I played from spider patch onwards. But official says we're all imagining things I guess.


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[Incredulous]

always repulsed if higher, dunno wtf jamies on lol

 

[KingCobra92]

How can anyone think repulse dash ever failed ? It's always been 1/1 if you're higher level , I also don't recall a single private server where it failed either.

But we must be wrong.

 

[Bon]

Repulse SD etc all worked 100% if you was higher level on euro

Level only effected the distance you would repulse someone back... and i think at lower levels it did have a chance to fail?? Now that I think about it im not sure

repulse never failed at lvl3 though and if u was higher than the person

 

[mStation]

But even so, the code

if (Random(20) < 6 + pushlevel * 3 + levelgap)

isn't something that happens that often when you are on level 3 SD and have +1 level on your opponent.

Random(20) is equivalent to 0 <= random < 20 which means it can't be higher than 19.

6 + pushlevel * 3 + levelgap with level 3 SD and +1 level is = 16

The only failing numbers are 17, 18, 19 which are 3 chances over 20 which is about 15% only.

Frankly I also seem to remember that having +1 level more than the opponent resulted in a 100% success rate to SD but maybe the programming language in the original source code dealt with random numbers differently... don't know.

 

[Jambo]

You missed out the part where wizzy pets are op as hell
and also, yeah lets nerf Tao's even more, they are not allowed to do decent damage, right.

Back at it again with the white vans

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[<SOSO>]

Repulse SD etc all worked 100% if you was higher level on euro

Level only effected the distance you would repulse someone back... and i think at lower levels it did have a chance to fail?? Now that I think about it im not sure

repulse never failed at lvl3 though and if u was higher than the person

This.
I too remember it like this. Played mir since beta also...