Balance Issues (Real opinions).

[Samuel]

So this thread has sprung from the amount of daily reports we get of people complaining about balance issues and I really wanted to get some REAL feedback in terms of opinions of actual players for each class on where/how they can/should be improved...

I would really like opinions on all classes rather than just moans on one.

I am going to try and stay on top of this thread and gather some real feedback, so the more productive/less trolly you can be the more will be taken from it.

Any non constructive posts will be removed.

My current opinions are:

Warrior:
My honest opinion is that most players seem happy with a warrior, the main issue people report is with shift pvp...

Assassin:
We get a lot of complaints about Assassin's being under powered but I personally don't believe this to be true, I have pvp'ed with the other guys on the team and Assassins I dare say are the dominant class in pvp (if you pvp correctly) *prepares for flames*.

Taoist:
Least amount of complaints, the complaints that do come in are around pets, a taoists pets are designed as follows:
Skeleton - faster/higher damage, but weak/easier to kill.
Shinsu - Slower/Lesser damage, but stronger than a skele.
HolyDeva - Low damage, but used to slow/flitch.

Whether or not they are achieving this is another question and I would like some opinions on this.

Wizard:
We receive copious amounts of complaints about wizards and I am not sure why other than the new AI and the cast times they haven't really been touched since acem2 (where they were the dominant "OP" class), opinions would be great.

Archers:
Second highest complaints come in for Archers and in all honesty I can see why, I don't think they need more DPS as they shouldn't be compared to the melee classes as they are ranged, I do however think they draw the short straw on their health pool and in the pvp's we had on a private server it seemed there was no real point in pvp... Although I found them enjoyable in pve...

I would like to give archers a shield type skill that gave them more use in pvp, but I would like to gather the opinions of the masses...

Any constructive feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Sam

Suggestions:
Taoists

Spoiler

• Increase pets attack range as when a taoist is attack it can take them a considerable amount of time to react.
• Deva AI needs to be smarter.

Archers

Spoiler

• Increase HP or provide them with a means to survive.
• Lower RapidFire/EagleEye Cooldown.

Wizards

Spoiler

• Remove smarter AI from cave monsters, keep on bosses.
• Frost crunch not doing enough damage and/or slowing enough.
• Increase Pet tame time.
• Pet window/journal to keep track of pets and tame points.

Warriors

Spoiler

• Entrapment not pulling as it should

Assassin

Spoiler

• Increase Health pool.

 

[Blank]

I can't give an all-round perspective I've only played Taoist here, but the pets aggro range is also a BIG thing for me as a Taoist.

I can attack players at range & players can attack me, and my pets just aren't interested for the first 5-10 seconds of the fight because the target hasn't entered aggro range....This wasn't an issue back in euro etc & surely as a summoning class my pets are supposed to attack what I attack & defend me when I'm attacked, rather than when it suits them.

 

[mattimean]

Tbh the part about warriors and shift in pvp is stupid.... this has always been part of a warrior even in euro..... cud just say the same about sins using shift in pvp too

 

[Samuel]

Tbh the part about warriors and shift in pvp is stupid.... this has always been part of a warrior even in euro..... cud just say the same about sins using shift in pvp too

The issue with this one is its not something that can be fixed and is kind of the product of the design of the client... The Mir Chronicles client is much faster than any of the previous clients up until now and as a result of this the messages come in a lot faster which means many more messages come in that have to be executed before the next...

e.g. Lets say traditional mir euro handle run/hit messages as so:
run message
run message
run message
hit message
run message
run message
run message

What the Chronicles client would be in comparison is:
run message
run message
run message
run message
run message
run message
run message
run message
run message
hit message
hit message
hit message
run message
run message
run message
run message
run message

The result of this means that when you on your screen appear to be next to another object and expect to hit, your client is still handling the run messages before it can move onto the hit...

The fix would be to slow down the client and making it the same old jerky Mir...

I hope this makes sense...

Sam

 

[idkbro]

Archers:
Second highest complaints come in for Archers and in all honesty I can see why, I don't think they need more DPS as they shouldn't be compared to the melee classes as they are ranged, I do however think they draw the short straw on their health pool and in the pvp's we had on a private server it seemed there was no real point in pvp... Although I found them enjoyable in pve...

I would like to give archers a shield type skill that gave them more use in pvp, but I would like to gather the opinions of the masses...

Can you please expand on why you thought it was pointless to pvp on an archer?

 

[Shane/Banshee]

real issues in pvp are very simple.

TDB FD poison is wrong. dealing 1.5 times damage on a player absolutly mental

what this enables is a warrior with 55-60 dc (shop kit) to 2 hit everyone ingame apart from another warrior and this is without the aid of a tao poison or ue.

this is where the real issue is. it was never a problem on euro because it used to stop spells working rather then 1.5x damage (was only 1.2 there and mobs only).

imo just this fix alone will bring back alot of balance.

only other thing that really bothers me is that playing a level 46 sin i struggle in orcs jinchon or anywhere that hits me for 25% of my hp in 1 hit. im a toe to toe mele class not a wiz tao or archer that stands back and deals damage. ive never played a sin before that is this bad at end game challanges

 

[Jamie]

I can only comment on my class Assassin.

Alot of my compairsons will towards a warrior since they are the only other melee class.

Level 46 I have 380 HP.

A warrior With level 3 FlameSword and 60 DC (very easy to get 60 DC) CAN 2 hit me, this is the warrior on his own and no other influences (No red poison).

Whilst the chance of being 2 hit is low (until they get more luck), it is always be possible regardless of how much Agility I get which means when I get hit I need to pot and wait until full HP or instantly use a sun again to reduce this chance... I would say I have the best damage ingame as an assassin because of my weapon. Having this kit on any other class I would be laugh, especially warrior. I will Never even think about trying to fight a warrior when they have my equivalent of kit.

Whilst I can PK people The kit it has that I require to do so is not without risk and I have to ALWAYS be careful not to be greifed (ruins any possibility for me to enjoy PvP because of the risk in losing luck).

If a warrior stands there and lets me PK them I can do that well, but all they have to do to win is run around IF my FlashDash actually works until the yellow poison runs off and then repeat to try 2 hit me, I have No chance of killing a warrior who plays like this.

If I try and PK a wizard my damage is reduced so much by their magic shield I am wasting my time, a Warrior can have 50% of their damage ignore MagicShield. And without Dash to cover the distance I am screwed.
I won't comment on a Taoist since if played correctly they will always win (pets).
I haven't PvP an archer yet.


As an assassin I excel at killing Trash Mobs, When it comes to anything other then that I always on the losing side of the dice and risking my life.

Agility doesn't do crap since its not a Reliable way to stay alive.

 

[Tashohnie]

Archer damage is fine, we have a magic shield spell in Korea but I think it might be a little bit too op. Maybe a buff that's like purified water or something? I don't know I'll have a think.

 

[Samuel]

real issues in pvp are very simple.

TDB FD poison is wrong. dealing 1.5 times damage on a player absolutly mental

what this enables is a warrior with 55-60 dc (shop kit) to 2 hit everyone ingame apart from another warrior and this is without the aid of a tao poison or ue.

this is where the real issue is. it was never a problem on euro because it used to stop spells working rather then 1.5x damage (was only 1.2 there and mobs only).

imo just this fix alone will bring back alot of balance.

only other thing that really bothers me is that playing a level 46 sin i struggle in orcs jinchon or anywhere that hits me for 25% of my hp in 1 hit. im a toe to toe mele class not a wiz tao or archer that stands back and deals damage. ive never played a sin before that is this bad at end game challanges

Warrior tdb does 1.2% as official.

Sam

 

[Kinneas]

Seems to me that archers are currently the class cannon of PvP. Even more so than wizzies as they have shield. Their health pool is second lowest only to wizzies too. I think their DPS is fine but something needs to be done about their survivability - either more health or some kind of cooldowns to keep them from being 1/2 hit (and it'll definitely be 1-hit once peoples kits get better).

I think sin is doing okay for now but as damage increases their health pool is probably going to become an issue as well. Will there be any class-specific sets to increase HP? Like the 5string set for wizards?

 

[Shane/Banshee]

Warrior tdb does 1.2% as official.

Sam

not when ive tested

will double check.

even still if it was 1.2 damage euro used to be 1/10 to land tdb effect not 1/2 or 1/3

 

[ziiid]

I have been playing a Sin on this server, only problem that I have seen is with bosses and Sins. (note this could be fixed when more gear is available) but at the moment because it is necessary for sins to be in melee range of anything they attack they could benefit from something that helps them be able to actually do this. Thinking for sins to be even able to attack orc bosses and higher. This becomes even more true if the bosses are more challenging in patch 2.0. This could come from a temporary skill that works for 20 secs with a 40 sec cool down (would sync well with geo manipulate) that allows sins go in and out of combat. A sin set (like smash set for sins) that adds some sort of survivability. Agility isn't a viable option as it will never ever get high enough to stop boss damage and merely helps you use less pots while leveling and running places.

My chief concern for the sin class is if they become useless if they cant even attack bosses (this isn't the same problem for range classes because they fundamentally do not have to take hits in the same way from ranged). I believe the fix for this would have to be well thought out because the rest of the class is working well and it could easily become over balanced.

 

[Jamie]

Warrior tdb does 1.2% as official.

Sam

level 3 TDB First Hit DC+8, Second Hit DC+8 Ignore all Defence (agil is not defence).

DC 9 - 10 on trainer will hit 17 OR 18.

When TDB Poisoned I hit for 27.

(10 + 8) * 1.5 = 27
(9 + 8) * 1.5 = 25.5 (Round up since its a real number in caclulations) = 26

 

[Ellmo]

I play a warrior and can honestly say that I picked the perfect class for me. No complaints here really. The shift thing can be an inconvenience but nothing more. Assassins saying that they are underpowered is ridiculous. In PVP, their attack speed can stun lock you and if you're yellowed, you're in big trouble on any class. I play on my wife's Taoist and have no complaints there either.

I do think that Wizards have been a little hard done by with the AI issues. They should be able to line up PB Omas and lightning / firewall kill them. Apart from that, they seem ok.

Archers are not useless in PVP. We were on a guild hunt and pretty much got our asses handed to us by 2 archers and a Taoist. Static Shot with decent DC is one of the craziest damage spells I have been hit with. We literally had no chance. The HP issue could be resolved with a weak shield or maybe even just a little HP buff in my opinion.

 

[ziiid]

The one caveat with this entire thread is that you are talking about the "balance" of the classes, but no one has all the skills. Without all the skills for the classes most changes don't make sense.

 

[deano13]

Giving archers an shield and more hp lol..... If anything sins need a bigger health pool, they die easy to everything having being melee... There hp really don't scale, I mean look at banshee hp in one of his screen shots, level 46 and has like 380hp... An lvl 35 can do that in 2 lucky TDB hits.. And now you've made slaying toggle and TDB spamable it's ridiculous..

 

[Samuel]

level 3 TDB First Hit DC+8, Second Hit DC+8 Ignore all Defence (agil is not defence).

DC 9 - 10 on trainer will hit 17 OR 18.

When TDB Poisoned I hit for 27.

(10 + 8) * 1.5 = 27
(9 + 8) * 1.5 = 25.5 (Round up since its a real number in caclulations) = 26

Hum, OK, If not for that screenshot I wouldn't of believed you lol as its set to 1.2, I will have to double check what is happening here, but this is likely a bug.

Sam

 

[evilwomann]

Agree with tash tbh shield on archer would be op, some sort of hp buff spell would be better!

With wizards, I actually think with the cast speed change they will be fine, the only problem with the new ai is it ovs just restricts us to tsing or tuing for quick lvling, ATM with every1's mc there is only 1 place to duo ts (PT), Bdd is doable jus the time it takes to get there and amount of mp used per lure it's just not worth it! Also with the webs not flinching stops u tsing most floors of Bdd anyway (not sure if this is how u wanted it)
Anyway.... 1 more ts able cave a would be awesome! On ace there was quite a few (FT, Bdd all floors, PT, ZT)

 

[deano13]

real issues in pvp are very simple.

TDB FD poison is wrong. dealing 1.5 times damage on a player absolutly mental

what this enables is a warrior with 55-60 dc (shop kit) to 2 hit everyone ingame apart from another warrior and this is without the aid of a tao poison or ue.

this is where the real issue is. it was never a problem on euro because it used to stop spells working rather then 1.5x damage (was only 1.2 there and mobs only).

imo just this fix alone will bring back alot of balance.

only other thing that really bothers me is that playing a level 46 sin i struggle in orcs jinchon or anywhere that hits me for 25% of my hp in 1 hit. im a toe to toe mele class not a wiz tao or archer that stands back and deals damage. ive never played a sin before that is this bad at end game challanges

+1

 

[Laylas]

real issues in pvp are very simple.

TDB FD poison is wrong. dealing 1.5 times damage on a player absolutly mental

what this enables is a warrior with 55-60 dc (shop kit) to 2 hit everyone ingame apart from another warrior and this is without the aid of a tao poison or ue.

this is where the real issue is. it was never a problem on euro because it used to stop spells working rather then 1.5x damage (was only 1.2 there and mobs only).

imo just this fix alone will bring back alot of balance.

only other thing that really bothers me is that playing a level 46 sin i struggle in orcs jinchon or anywhere that hits me for 25% of my hp in 1 hit. im a toe to toe mele class not a wiz tao or archer that stands back and deals damage. ive never played a sin before that is this bad at end game challanges

I'll +1 to this thread also, even tho I play war, I will say TDB at the moment is really over powered lol, I can honestly splat sins,archers so easy.. Sins more easier as archers tend to run :P and having constant TDB I can pretty much kill on par with an assasin, I hate to say this but in all honesty I'd say lower wars dmg and leave sins as it is, they are spose to kill faster and hurt a lot, but unless they have luck+7 fate blades and decent dc, you only have to fart and there blow over :P