Balance Issues (Real opinions).
- Thread starter Samuel
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- Mar 18, 2008
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- Jul 16, 2004
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Wizards - Taming / Pet Journal / Index
Probably be a hard one to code in since the variaty of pet's a wizard can choose is anything that's not undead and within level range but I thought it would be cool to implement this feature. What this feature what do is keep count and index the monsters a certain wizard tames, why would this matter? Heres an example
IF you can spend the amount of time it would take to create this feature then the wizard will have a journal and a list of monsters tamed would be added to this journal. Each time the wizard tames a certain monster they will gain control points for that certain monster, this would increase the chance of taming that pet.
So , if a wizard MAXES out the control points for say an "Oma" they would have a higher success rate of taming that pet again. Not only would this increase the use of electric shock but it would give something for wizards to train (they'd look around and gain control points for their desired monster, ensuring they can tame quickly with higher success rate).
Of course ,with that feature you would need to give something just as equal to other classes, like giving warriors threat spells and taoist HOT spells, so on...
highly doubt you'd be able to do this though and alot of the balancing is normally sorted out stat wise (giving players the option to choose stats like resilience and hit rating etc...)
Probably be a hard one to code in since the variaty of pet's a wizard can choose is anything that's not undead and within level range but I thought it would be cool to implement this feature. What this feature what do is keep count and index the monsters a certain wizard tames, why would this matter? Heres an example
IF you can spend the amount of time it would take to create this feature then the wizard will have a journal and a list of monsters tamed would be added to this journal. Each time the wizard tames a certain monster they will gain control points for that certain monster, this would increase the chance of taming that pet.
So , if a wizard MAXES out the control points for say an "Oma" they would have a higher success rate of taming that pet again. Not only would this increase the use of electric shock but it would give something for wizards to train (they'd look around and gain control points for their desired monster, ensuring they can tame quickly with higher success rate).
Of course ,with that feature you would need to give something just as equal to other classes, like giving warriors threat spells and taoist HOT spells, so on...
highly doubt you'd be able to do this though and alot of the balancing is normally sorted out stat wise (giving players the option to choose stats like resilience and hit rating etc...)
Warrior had a bug. Its being fixed. Not a nerf.
if fd is ment to do 20% then fd wont be worth using.
with luck 7 using fd only actually works out 20% more damage over a minute. And thats at 50% bonus damage from the skill.
so simple terms a sin using fd = 20% more damage. Not 50%. Due to spamming fd and not ds.
---------- Post Merged at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:30 PM ----------
Warrior had a bug. Its being fixed. Not a nerf.
if fd is ment to do 20% then fd wont be worth using.
with luck 7 using fd only actually works out 20% more damage over a minute. And thats at 50% bonus damage from the skill.
so simple terms a sin using fd = 20% more damage. Not 50%. Due to spamming fd and not ds.
Flash dash it's self has **** dmg, we relie on the yellow poison effect to damage, can go 3-4 fds before the yellow effect even works, not all of us have nice dc and luck+7 lol, you do talk sense, hope Sam listens.
i 43 tao still cant say much on shin or deva because their still overprized in commision
so still i c tao pets weak
tao lvl slower as other classes /that is ok, but we cant solo any higher places propperly solo to lvl
tao life from his pets !
so in all mir i played the pets was go stronger with tao l! here tao isnt uch needet because other classes not really need the support from taos here.....
i c also the luck on wep make all classe stronger (l7 make them x... lvl faster) on tao that wont effect anythng...
what is than the sense lvl a tao if we stay at end same low as a tao what have all his pets....
look how much taos already gived up
so still i c tao pets weak
tao lvl slower as other classes /that is ok, but we cant solo any higher places propperly solo to lvl
tao life from his pets !
so in all mir i played the pets was go stronger with tao l! here tao isnt uch needet because other classes not really need the support from taos here.....
i c also the luck on wep make all classe stronger (l7 make them x... lvl faster) on tao that wont effect anythng...
what is than the sense lvl a tao if we stay at end same low as a tao what have all his pets....
look how much taos already gived up
Whilst I understand that a 'bug' has been found with warrs' yellow poison and that bugs should be fixed, I do not think there's a problem with warriors atm and don't think this should be changed. Yes there's a small chance sins could get 2 hit by a warr, but this is really only in a couple of situations:
1. a warr yellows the sin with TDB on his first hit as well as a high DC hit
2. the warr gets a high DC hit with flaming sword on his second hit
The issues with this are that TDB doesnt poison half as much as flash dash hit-for-hit, and also warr weps are hard to luck, meaning warrs don't hit high DC frequently.
As a warr I've toe-to-toed many sins and can honestly say it's at the very least balanced, if not slightly in favour of sins - with their attack speed they very easily yellow poison, and when a warr's yellowed he can't toe to toe a sin.
You've taken away warrs' attack speed by nerfing gale items and making them rare as rocking horse ****, which i understand, but decrease their damage and even more people will quit.
1. a warr yellows the sin with TDB on his first hit as well as a high DC hit
2. the warr gets a high DC hit with flaming sword on his second hit
The issues with this are that TDB doesnt poison half as much as flash dash hit-for-hit, and also warr weps are hard to luck, meaning warrs don't hit high DC frequently.
As a warr I've toe-to-toed many sins and can honestly say it's at the very least balanced, if not slightly in favour of sins - with their attack speed they very easily yellow poison, and when a warr's yellowed he can't toe to toe a sin.
You've taken away warrs' attack speed by nerfing gale items and making them rare as rocking horse ****, which i understand, but decrease their damage and even more people will quit.
Imo you should redesign FlashDash to do what it did officially which fits the name better also ;p if not rename it accordingly.
Warriors = fine imo just need the tdb bug fixed and if any work could be done on making the shift pvp any better would be great.
Wizards = fine also but i do agree mob ai would be better reverted back.
Taoist = Pets need some slight adjustments.
Assassin = I was a bit let down by there hp but could pk people a lot higher level than me. (at lower level i tested)
Archers = I think a slight hp buff may be the solution as there ranged damage is so great, or maybe give rapidfire and deathly aim no cool down ;p
On the whole at present with the current skills in game and items your not too far from having it balanced so good job on that.
Warriors = fine imo just need the tdb bug fixed and if any work could be done on making the shift pvp any better would be great.
Wizards = fine also but i do agree mob ai would be better reverted back.
Taoist = Pets need some slight adjustments.
Assassin = I was a bit let down by there hp but could pk people a lot higher level than me. (at lower level i tested)
Archers = I think a slight hp buff may be the solution as there ranged damage is so great, or maybe give rapidfire and deathly aim no cool down ;p
On the whole at present with the current skills in game and items your not too far from having it balanced so good job on that.
Let me first start by saying. If you're going to do any tests that change pvp balance, please, for the love of god, involve the current dominant pking guild and other heavily focused fighting guilds with it. Which I believe is Curse10 and perhaps TKO/DD. Most people I'm sure would agree. 90% of our guild play mir for the fighting, and can give you an accurate representation of a fair fight between classes, because most of us are also at the speedcap, you can get a realistic sense of which class is stronger in which scenarios. Simply watching us fight (and win) out numbered odds in Orcs should give you a rough idea of this.
So far my thoughts are as follows for classes from a strictly PVP based opinion:
Warriors - fine as they are. Certainly do not need buffing, may need a tweak or 2 to bring balance in line in the future, but besides that, they're in a good spot right now.
Assassins - fine as they are (insane dps, squishy), BUT - and this is a big but, they lack their most important pvp spell (Swiftfeet) where they become super dominant against ranged classes, but will still lose out to a warrior which imo, they should. If a sin is moaning, they probably haven't tested like I have on beta a sin with swiftfeet. It's a whole new game. Literally.
Taoists - the most balanced class on here by far. They give SO MUCH utility in fights it's scary. The buffs you've made to green/red poison make them amazing for fights, their heals are fantastic when coupled with health potions. They can resurrect people infinitely. They have a very decent sized healthpool. I can safely say in a 1v1 scenario I will never beat Xele on my warrior when he's playing Supermeds. If you're going to change anything with tao's, the only change I'd make is to deva, and that it should simply have a slightly larger detect range. Besides that - they are absolutely fine. You've buffed this class massively compared to Euro.
Wizards: I have seen zero complaints from any of our wizzies in guild since the lightning change I recommended. Because now they have a legitimate way of dealing decent damage, but with a sense of achievement that they have to properly line up the spell. The problem here is, they were the dominant class on AceM2 because people had FF, Met strike etc. Those spells alone make wizzards so unbelievably strong in groups it wipes the floor with any competition. This will be the class to watch when FF/Met/Blizzard start coming into play.
Archers: Okay. I think people need to understand that this class has some serious damage, because they hit AMC based attacks instead of AC. MrTashohnie (highest dc archer in-game, in guild) can 4hit me on my warrior when red poised and I have 822hp. Just consider that for a second. Now, the reason they most likely moan is because they're positioning themselves poorly in fights. Although I don't like to admit it, Aldor / Apex group have the right idea with this. Protect the ranged classes and proceed to watch people flop. If you are even remotely close to a warrior or assassin you're doing your job wrong as an archer. Archers are the class that will most likely destroy wizzies and tao's in fights, because when it becomes a ranged battle, archers have the superior dps and with static shot, wizzie's and tao's pets become a hindrance. All in all, I think this class is good in PvP if played correctly. Sadly, I have yet to see many archers play correctly. If you are going to buff this class, please for the love of god do not touch their stats/healthpool.
My suggestion for this class: Please rework one of their spells, Powershot? (the one that pushes people back but has a cooldown on it) into a spell that instead pushes THEMSELVES back, even through people and does not need to be aimed on a target to use. This should be their "escape tool" besides their clone spell. Positioning is important on an archer and I feel with this spell being a get-out clause, they'll be much safer in extreme close-up situations. 90% of ranged classes on MMO's will have a spell just like this for a reason.
Watch a few of Curse10 fights in orcs. You will see all our melee's chase archers first, and try very hard to not let them get attacks off. Why? Because if left alone they'll wipe out everybody with stacks of bouncing static shock. Archers are scary when in a group together, much like wizzies. Their solo play in pvp however is very lacking unless they can correctly use the mobs/pets of other classes around them or their own clone+static shot to deal damage.
If you would like my opinions on PvE for each class, I will happily do so but honestly - PvP Power which in turn becomes PvE Power is the problem here, not PvE in its entirety.
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- Mar 18, 2008
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most sins are retarded on server apart from the ones with high luck, its easy to luck a fate blades high,
warrior doesnt have that luxury i used 70 benes back to luck (7mill wasted), You can luck ur wep and hit and it maximum dmg near every hit, warrior will never have that luxury i would guess around 700 benes to luck a wep luck 7 if your lucky.
I do agree I am warrior and i would choose sin over warrior if i had luck 7 vs the Warriors maximum on server iv seen luck 4-5) purely due to maximum dmg, I think should be treated the same and lose the yellow poision damage too, Anyways i am staying inactive cause of this issues with luck ect and not being able to pvp War Vs war Need to walk in pvp, I prefer running pvp like mir3 without glitches... I would love to see a mir2 client using the same shift system as mir3 Would own so bad no glitches no stopping no cluckyness... But i doubt a mir2 server would ever be that smart at coding it
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All I can tell you is that you are wrong about lk7 and tao skills. The catch is atm the odds u get the useful skill are so slim u might as wel give up the dream of having it.
I am talking about PoisonCloud.
---------- Post Merged at 10:08 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:04 PM ----------
You see it only from pvp point of view. Wanna know how many "carebears" were among those 200+ that stopped playing ?koriban;930851 Taoists - the most balanced class on here by far. They give SO MUCH utility in fights it's scary. The buffs you've made to green/red poison make them amazing for fights said:
Please don't give false information. Firstly, in standard shop kit (Drings,clawneck,deathgaunts,dcstoneM + Gaxe), a warrior has DC54 with 17accuracy. In order to hit DC60 on a warrior you need a either a Jmace (currently not easy to obtain), or boundless/OSR rings aswell as DC on your helmet belt and boots (also not easy to obtain). In my current kit I have DC60 with a gaxe and I'm sure I'm one of the best kitted warriors ingame.
Secondly, We even tested this with you in full DC kit (so pretty much almost no AC what so ever) and with DC10-60 ACC20 Luck+2, I would 100% need to hit a YELLOW tdb on you (MAX DC) followed by a Flamesword (MAX DC) to 2hit you. We tried 30 times. 6 out of those 30 times, my first TDB was yellow, so I could attempt to flamesword you and not once out of those 6times did I 2hit you. I came very, very close, but did not 2hit you.
Otherwise, as we tested, it takes me an average of 4hits (4tdb's) to kill you without you potting. I strongly welcome Samuel to come ingame and show him our results if he doesn't believe either one of us. I do not know about you, but I frankly think that's fine considering the damage output you do/can do. When In full Agility kit, If I miss ONE of my attacks on you, in a toe-to-toe situation I lose due to your superior a.speed/damage - and I'd like to remind you that a sin with light body can dodge a warriors attacks if he's not wearing sharp bracelets.
The problem is you're expecting your class to be like a warrior, and thus compare it to a warrior. You're missing your most fundamental spell (SwiftFeet) which gives you the MirBoots effect, which in turn means any ranged class is screwed against you. You are also, strangely, slow in-game now despite being at the speed cap several weeks ago. Being slow-ingame has a large importance on winning melee fights.
Your class excels against ranged classes, casters, when you've got swiftfeet. Until then I honestly feel you're half a class, but I do not ever expect you to beat a same skilled warrior in a fight as an assassin without a superior kit advantage.
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- May 8, 2013
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this isnt true , on a level 40 warrior i have access 2 , in 2 death gauntlets , a great axe , quest ring coral ring quest necky i have dc 51 , thats entirely shop kit , no UE or anything
Whats your base DC@ Lv 40? 7-8?
Natural 7-8
GreatAxe 0-27
DeathGauntlet 1-2
DeathGauntlet 1-2
DragonRing 0-5
DragonRing 0-5
DCStone(L) 1-2
ClawNecklace 0-5
MediumArmour 0-2
DC 10-58 by my calculations
Excluding any add items this kit is very easy to get (I never said shop kit, but apart from the stone and Dragon rings it is).
If your argument that Warrior vs Assassin is balanced because assassin get SwiftFeet.. Why ? You already said this is for a ranged character so this should be a non factor (Lets ignore Rage at this point in time shall we?).
I have Luck+7 which has an amazing power spike.. If was to use a Luck+2 DoubleBlades vs you (equal kit) You would trash me hands down I would literally have no chance to kill you if you actually didn't want to die, If you had Luck+7 FateSWORD vs me with Luck+7 FateBlades you would still trash me because unless I get luck with FlashDash I'm going to tickle you trying to get the poison but then you just walk away for a few seconds and its back to sqaure one.
So after doing some tests, it seems your base dc without kit is horribly wrong for an assassin.
A sin's base dc is 1-7, a warriors base dc is 7-8. Warriors is in line with official, but assassins base dc needs to be something like 8-7, considering they're a mid-ranged dc class with max a.speed.
My point being though, is that your class isn't designed in my honest opinion to beat warriors. It's designed to beat ranged classes.
End of the day, It's pointless making changes without every class having all their spells, as we do not yet know each classes maximum output.
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- Dec 4, 2008
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yeah, I also struggle that you AND your brother have luck+7.. what's the odds on that? aside from packet sniffing or other cheats generally, don't trust you at all.. and why should anyone else? It's almost a reason to dump this server.. but then we've seen lots have.. we'll see at 2.0 how many come back.. but currently this server is leaking 50 users a week.
43 warr has 762 out of perspective.
I'm thinking that perhaps because assassins are a melee class, they may need a very slight health buff. Only slight, but it would be justified.
- May 8, 2013
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