Class specialisation concept

[Hercules]

Yeah D/w @Piff1 ive already got my 5 set up, NPCs scripts skill lvls, just pulling a @LightBringer

Aesir Paladin was fun to play tho, although that’s coz its very good

 

[LightBringer]

Like I said, the idea i had wouldn't be seen as a subclass system, but it gives customization.
But it was all paper ideas, never put into practice atm!

I'd honestly not mind what ideas were used with the ones I suggest (as they are just ideas) any ones I have that I 100% want to use, are top secret...

 

[Muh]

Sharings caring dude, what’s mine is mine and what’s yours is also mine, that’s the saying right?

The heads i win tails you lose approach

We could go places man, places outside the sector 7 slums ya know?

 

[Hercules]

U can wear the sparkly dress @WhyJewBanMe

 

[WelshSteel]

@mir2pion well AC / DC is really too simple a way of looking at roles, if you load a Warrior with AC+AMC how does that make him a tank? it makes him tanky but being a tank for others, no, he's still a Warrior and he's much weaker but if the enemy are stupid enough to focus him or they're just out of targets then he'll stay, that's not too useful.

The Barbarian+Knight example I've drawn up clearly shows role capability, a Knight can pull targets to him every few seconds, he's able to AoE cc enemies in reach of Blade Avalanche providing peel to backline squishies.
Something not mentioned but this Knight concept would not be "super tanky", he is allowed to have much greater AMC than a warrior/barbarian to ignore Wizard area controls and point and click hard hitting flinch but a Knight, even through shield stats, would not be given extra AC, otherwise there would be no real weakness to this class and it would just stay put and CC and pull all day.

Archers and Sins would come into play in being a threat to his life.

You stated that Sins should be the ones with the greatest Attack speed but I'm going to state right now, Assassins in Mir have been a **** concept, they need to be deadly and seize on opportunites, not just this faster moving+attack speed but lower HP version of the Warrior. I just want to state though I would want a version of Asssassin (or sub class) that benefits from great attack speed but it shouldn't be only to them, Warrior players should have fun too with this "fun stat" in Mir.

An Assassin's strength in Mir should be this :
- Be a huge threat to any target, regardless of how much HP or AC, % HP damage dealing and a good bleed proc that works against targets with low max HP AND with every auto attack lower AC or a mechanic which procs bleed or gives a mechanic of "opportunity"
- They should be very mobile, for plays and for this reason....
Assassin's should be weak to :
- Single target abilities, they should be extremely difficult to catch with point and click abilities due to their movement speed and dashing but when caught out they should be punished heavily and most of the time be forced to use an emergency skill on a longish cd, dash, or die.

Atm, everyone has Assassin wrong, it's just literally a "Warrior subclass"

@LightBringer @LOMValkyrie @Sanjian @Hercules @Jamie and maybe chronicles goons (although I think they did a fairly good job at seperating Warrior and Sin).

!!

 

[Hercules]

@mir2pion well AC / DC is really too simple a way of looking at roles, if you load a Warrior with AC+AMC how does that make him a tank? it makes him tanky but being a tank for others, no, he's still a Warrior and he's much weaker but if the enemy are stupid enough to focus him or they're just out of targets then he'll stay, that's not too useful.

The Barbarian+Knight example I've drawn up clearly shows role capability, a Knight can pull targets to him every few seconds, he's able to AoE cc enemies in reach of Blade Avalanche providing peel to backline squishies.
Something not mentioned but this Knight concept would not be "super tanky", he is allowed to have much greater AMC than a warrior/barbarian to ignore Wizard area controls and point and click hard hitting flinch but a Knight, even through shield stats, would not be given extra AC, otherwise there would be no real weakness to this class and it would just stay put and CC and pull all day.

Archers and Sins would come into play in being a threat to his life.

You stated that Sins should be the ones with the greatest Attack speed but I'm going to state right now, Assassins in Mir have been a **** concept, they need to be deadly and seize on opportunites, not just this faster moving+attack speed but lower HP version of the Warrior. I just want to state though I would want a version of Asssassin (or sub class) that benefits from great attack speed but it shouldn't be only to them, Warrior players should have fun too with this "fun stat" in Mir.

An Assassin's strength in Mir should be this :
- Be a huge threat to any target, regardless of how much HP or AC, % HP damage dealing and a good bleed proc that works against targets with low max HP AND with every auto attack lower AC or a mechanic which procs bleed or gives a mechanic of "opportunity"
- They should be very mobile, for plays and for this reason....
Assassin's should be weak to :
- Single target abilities, they should be extremely difficult to catch with point and click abilities due to their movement speed and dashing but when caught out they should be punished heavily and most of the time be forced to use an emergency skill on a longish cd, dash, or die.

Atm, everyone has Assassin wrong, it's just literally a "Warrior subclass"

@LightBringer @LOMValkyrie @Sanjian @Hercules @Jamie and maybe chronicles goons (although I think they did a fairly good job at seperating Warrior and Sin).

!!

Im brutal mate when it comes to sub classes so il stick with the 5 war wiz tao sin arch for my first server.

My idea would be remove tao/sin/warrior altogether and utilise the spells across a new multiple class set ...

Dc/Sc - Paladin (cross between warrior/Tao, male)

Dc - Berserker (cross between warrior/assassin, female)

Mc - Witch (a revamped female wiz)

Mc - Ranger (a revamped male arch)

But that’s for the distant future, I don’t even think I’m ready for that scenario yet

 

[LightBringer]

Assassins was a poor choice as we rushed implementation for launch.

I can safely say the reason sins don't work and have never worked, is because they were always designed to catch up to people.
So on launch you overnerf them because they have built in catch ups (such as high kill speeds etc) which then makes them suck late game.

Combined with the quite boring and limited skill set of the class, they need a lot of work to be interesting.
I always saw them as more of a Rogue from wow, you have your basics but built up energy (instead of mana) or combo points which would allow your skills to do additional effects/dmg etc at a cost of energy/combo points.

So you could sit there and use a spell whenever you get the energy, or let it stack up and unleash a really strong combo for that high burst sins should be known for.
*the energy/combo points would diminish when out of combat, but id but it at a 20-30 second interval before degen starts.

It also allows you to give them skills where they can cast a spell for say max combopoints/energy, but unable to gain energy for 15 seconds, which basically means, if you think you can catch someone and burst them, but then its a lot harder to defend yourself.

I did have a beautiful vision for Assassins, but they weren't originally going to be in on release and that's what kinda screwed them up for me!

 

[mir2pion]

Warrior players should have fun too with this "fun stat" in Mir.

I don't deny it to them, just that the amount should not equal or even top the speed, sin can get. But that's theory, I am open to different ideas, point is to brainstorm.

BTW I play warrior on most servers, sin I don't play lately and when I did, never got to too high levels with it. Always at some point, I got fed up with the single target way of hunting and made war or returned to it. I suppose that's the negative side of solo playing, I've seen high level sins and obviously, somehow they got there, but maybe leaching off grp exp along the way?

Sometimes the solution to single target limit is to make a cave sparsely populated with high exp mobs, so they can't be lured, but no server supports the whole journey (many caves) to high levels plus it effectively separates you from other pple, even from your guild, unless you hunt with other sins, maybe with tao. And in addition, such a cave is a sad cave, I love it when the place is humming with mobs.

IMO each class needs to have area attack(s) to be fun to play. Wiz class is popular precisely for this point but warrior is doing OK too with HM, CHM, BS. Tao also has some but sin? Maybe some high level skill I never had when playing it?

My point of view is pure PvE, I dislike PvP but see its place too as essential, just don't tailor class purely around it. I like that approach when the class is designed with view to PvE and then tweak some limits or enhancements for when the skills are put against players.

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2020

Spoiler: Cockamamie idea

To throw is some cockamamie idea - did anybody think of a 'variable-class' server (one generic class, only differing M or Female when logging in), that would allow you to equip war, wiz, tao, sin items, get any skill... but each skill would be active only if you had its amulet equipped (it would remember the skill level you have achieved with particular skill), with some additional restrictions. The idea is, when a grp is going for a boss, someone would be told to 'make' a tao, another wiz or warrior or sin, depending on the grp size and the boss, each one could be any specialization. If you equipped yourself to have tao skills, that would prevent you to use most of the skills of other classes. Some skills could be combined for some interesting outcome. BTW this would make scarcity of, say, tao being around when needed to complete a grp, a thing of the past (as long as you actually acquired tao skill books and leveled them in the usual way).

Perhaps the class balancing would then be superfluous, all you would need to balance is the skills cross-compatibility, which skill could coexist with which - you could use CHM and throw a fireball or arrow if you switched to a bow from your bag, or give someone a limited heal or in one session. I don't think it should be as strict as in having a single amulet for each class, equipping which would make you into that particular class. Rather an amulet for each skill, a panel to insert 'skill amulets' in that would have limited number of slots (besides not allowing to insert 'incompatible' skills to be active simultaneously). In addition, the skill amulet panel could only be opened in SZ for modification.

 

[LightBringer]

I don't deny it to them, just that the amount should not equal or even top the speed, sin can get. But that's theory, I am open to different ideas, point is to brainstorm.

BTW I play warrior on most servers, sin I don't play lately and when I did, never got to too high levels with it. Always at some point, I got fed up with the single target way of hunting and made war or returned to it. I suppose that's the negative side of solo playing, I've seen high level sins and obviously, somehow they got there, but maybe leaching off grp exp along the way?

Sometimes the solution to single target limit is to make a cave sparsely populated with high exp mobs, so they can't be lured, but no server supports the whole journey (many caves) to high levels plus it effectively separates you from other pple, even from your guild, unless you hunt with other sins, maybe with tao. And in addition, such a cave is a sad cave, I love it when the place is humming with mobs.

IMO each class needs to have area attack(s) to be fun to play. Wiz class is popular precisely for this point but warrior is doing OK too with HM, CHM, BS. Tao also has some but sin? Maybe some high level skill I never had when playing it?

My point of view is pure PvE, I dislike PvP but see its place too as essential, just don't tailor class purely around it. I like that approach when the class is designed with view to PvE and then tweak some limits or enhancements for when the skills are put against players.

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2020

Spoiler: Cockamamie idea

To throw is some cockamamie idea - did anybody think of a 'variable-class' server (one generic class, only differing M or Female when logging in), that would allow you to equip war, wiz, tao, sin items, get any skill... but each skill would be active only if you had its amulet equipped (it would remember the skill level you have achieved with particular skill), with some additional restrictions. The idea is, when a grp is going for a boss, someone would be told to 'make' a tao, another wiz or warrior or sin, depending on the grp size and the boss, each one could be any specialization. If you equipped yourself to have tao skills, that would prevent you to use most of the skills of other classes. Some skills could be combined for some interesting outcome. BTW this would make scarcity of, say, tao being around when needed to complete a grp, a thing of the past (as long as you actually acquired tao skill books and leveled them in the usual way).

Perhaps the class balancing would then be superfluous, all you would need to balance is the skills cross-compatibility, which skill could coexist with which - you could use CHM and throw a fireball or arrow if you switched to a bow from your bag, or give someone a limited heal or in one session. I don't think it should be as strict as in having a single amulet for each class, equipping which would make you into that particular class. Rather an amulet for each skill, a panel to insert 'skill amulets' in that would have limited number of slots (besides not allowing to insert 'incompatible' skills to be active simultaneously). In addition, the skill amulet panel could only be opened in SZ for modification.

Your idea basically sounds like a diluted Path of Exile; I am not sure how that play style would fit Mir.

Personally I think my next server will be 3 heroes on launch war/wiz/tao then release Sin and Archer later down the line once you have seen how the current 3 work, and what is missing in terms of play style and you can then tailor the new classes to it, rather than putting all 5 in from launch and realising an archer is a **** wizard and a sin is a **** warrior.

 

[WelshSteel]

Combined with the quite boring and limited skill set of the class, they need a lot of work to be interesting.
I always saw them as more of a Rogue from wow, you have your basics but built up energy (instead of mana) or combo points which would allow your skills to do additional effects/dmg etc at a cost of energy/combo points.

So you could sit there and use a spell whenever you get the energy, or let it stack up and unleash a really strong combo for that high burst sins should be known for.
*the energy/combo points would diminish when out of combat, but id but it at a 20-30 second interval before degen starts.

It also allows you to give them skills where they can cast a spell for say max combopoints/energy, but unable to gain energy for 15 seconds, which basically means, if you think you can catch someone and burst them, but then its a lot harder to defend yourself.

Yea I'm really liking this, so their mobility has a secondary purpose of getting away for that "next opportunity" (getting another full "energy" bar) and they are essentially punished if someone can stick to them but if they get away clean somehow you have to "watch your back" again.

 

[LightBringer]

Yea I'm really liking this, so their mobility has a secondary purpose of getting away for that "next opportunity" (getting another full "energy" bar) and they are essentially punished if someone can stick to them but if they get away clean somehow you have to "watch your back" again.

Exactly, giving a cooldown period for when they are vulnerable.
Making their engage/escape skills cost some energy would mean that you wouldn't have optimal burst if you need to use your shadowstep etc; to burst fully.