Diminishing returns and well rested mechanics.

[holo]

You realise you're playing Mir right? People play this game because of its mechanics. If they wanted to play a game that requires more skill then they wouldn't be on Mir..

I understand your points but it involves changing the very principles of Mir, it's like making a MMORPG first person only.

I think you're playing the wrong game bud.

Just because the base game is mir, doesn't mean all the mechanics need to remain true to the base game. This is a private server, mechanics can change, which is frankly why this server is so popular. It has been modified to make it better. If you wanted to play the base game, well I'm not sure there are any servers like that because they'd be completely dead in a couple of months.

It goes back to the same thing though, why shouldn't the guy putting in 40+ hrs a week be pulling away from a guy putting in maybe 20 hrs a week? This is a problem that people have in all walks of life these days, everyone wants everything handed to them without working for it. Not a rant just an observation.

The core base of the server is always going to be around the same level and you will always have a group that is ahead, shouldn't be looking for ways to close that gap as they put in a lot more effort than anyone else to get to where they are. If you want to close the gap put in more grind hours as most of the lvl 75's don't grind, they mix lvling with bosses etc

Yes, the 40hrs player should pull away, but it should literally be double the 20hrs player. The first few hours you spend a day should yield the majority of progress for that day. That's how you get people to play every single day. This is normally done by daily quests in modern games, or rested exp as suggested here. Once those few hours are spent, subsequent hours should result in diminishing returns. So spending 5 hrs a day would give say 10mil exp, spending 7 hrs might give 12mil, 10hrs say 14mil, 12hrs -> 15mil. So the guy spendind 5hrs a day more is still gaining far more progress, just not linearly. On mir, the higher you can the faster you gain exp, so its more 5hrs you get 5mil, 10hrs you get 15mil, and can pk the **** out of the other guy further reducing that 5mil....

 

[Koriban]

I understand where you're coming from but I feel this thread is just revolving around the same moot argument points.

As stated, we are never going to limit people for playing too much. What we can and have done (via newbie guild and other mechanics) is give people a better chance to catch up.

I should be blunt here; that's all it should ever be - a better chance to catch up. The moment we start negating people's hard work by making it trivial is when we lose faith in the members who've stuck around longer. So I appreciate the sentiment but, I feel right now we're at a decent spot catchup wise. If you have any other suggestions on how to better enable players to catch up, i'd love to hear them though in the suggestions section.

 

[Emzie]

You realise you're playing Mir right? People play this game because of its mechanics. If they wanted to play a game that requires more skill then they wouldn't be on Mir..

I dunno since I begun my quest to become a mir eliteist I have brought a new skillset and resilience to my gameplay. And oh boy it requires dedication unparalled with my efforts on other mmo's....
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was. To make them fume is my real test, to PK them is my cause...

 

[Koriban]

I dunno since I begun my quest to become a mir eliteist I have brought a new skillset and resilience to my gameplay. And oh boy it requires dedication unparalled with my efforts on other mmo's....
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was. To make them fume is my real test, to PK them is my cause...

Will you travel across the land?

Searching far and wide?

 

[<SOSO>]

Cba to read all but here's my 2 cents:

I agree with the fact that the new players should have buffs and bonuses such as starters guild , faster lvling prob starting @ a higher lvl with a bound kit, etc. It should be like that otherwise even if some new ppl would like to play it, it will be too much effort to try catching up with those who play since start.

However, we all know what type of game mir is and imho u can't expect GM to just shut down the ppl (multi or not) who've invested (and still do) a lot of time and money like myself, just so the rest of the crowd (that didn't put as much effort in) could catch up. There should be a small degree of differentiation between us and that's why there's a soft & hard-ish cap ingame.

PS: If ppl are using bots to farm or whatnot, by all means, they should be banned !

 

[levp]

Yes, the 40hrs player should pull away, but it should literally be double the 20hrs player. The first few hours you spend a day should yield the majority of progress for that day. That's how you get people to play every single day. This is normally done by daily quests in modern games, or rested exp as suggested here. Once those few hours are spent, subsequent hours should result in diminishing returns. So spending 5 hrs a day would give say 10mil exp, spending 7 hrs might give 12mil, 10hrs say 14mil, 12hrs -> 15mil. So the guy spendind 5hrs a day more is still gaining far more progress, just not linearly. On mir, the higher you can the faster you gain exp, so its more 5hrs you get 5mil, 10hrs you get 15mil, and can pk the **** out of the other guy further reducing that 5mil....

This is what I'm trying to push here.

Now koriban I understand your point, you don't want to punish your core loyal players but don't you think that that harsh competitive environment of having to do more hours that the rest or be left behind doesn't also makes up for people being burnt out of the grind?
I remember some players that were top but had disappeared. Maybe not being burnt out, maybe some personal issues that make them don't be able to play as much. Maybe those players would still be playing if they could achieve more in their reduced time, don't you think?

 

[Koriban]

This is what I'm trying to push here.

Now koriban I understand your point, you don't want to punish your core loyal players but don't you think that that harsh competitive environment of having to do more hours that the rest or be left behind doesn't also makes up for people being burnt out of the grind?
I remember some players that were top but had disappeared. Maybe not being burnt out, maybe some personal issues that make them don't be able to play as much. Maybe those players would still be playing if they could achieve more in their reduced time, don't you think?

Considering there are no death drops here, no, I honestly don't. There's no real punishment for not being able to put in as much time, you're just not as useful in a fight as you could be.

 

[Repo]

Possibly the dumbest suggestion i have read in a while.

Yes mate lets punish the people that have put in time and effort to level their chars and make the core of the server.

I mean the smart thing to do would be to give more benefits to lower levels but nah, lets just punish high levels instead, **** logic.

 

[ipwnu]

Just put put some level restricted caves in place so you can enjoy the pk etc at any level.

3/5 heroes did this perfectly I’d love to fight for some bosses with people my own level without having to be level cap.

40-50 51-60 61-70 70 plus , cave once every 3 hours global shout to tele in for some sort of pk boss.

Level 64 and killed 3 people I think when iv loved pk on other servers.

Wish I had the time to put in and get 75 plus with a nice kit but I don’t, no reason middle levels shouldn’t be fun though

 

[levp]

Possibly the dumbest suggestion i have read in a while.

Yes mate lets punish the people that have put in time and effort to level their chars and make the core of the server.

I mean the smart thing to do would be to give more benefits to lower levels but nah, lets just punish high levels instead, **** logic.

I don't think you read the suggestion. Nobody is punishing high levels or low levels.
The change would affect ALL players after spending X amount of time ingame. People putting more hours will still make more gold, more exp, etc. as usual just at lower rate after X amount of time played.

Why? Well because I believe, as it is in the suggestion above, it will help the server keep a high player base for longer by reducing the amount of time everyone needs grind, yes everyone, top players can benefit from this too (hardly any human can keep up the rate at which some people grind for long before it affects their real life)

Something I read a lot is people don't go pk because they only have a couple of hours left and they want to do that last 10% to be able to beat whatever.
Reducing that necessary grind let's you with more free time to pk, do boss, etc..

 

[Erebus]

I don't think you read the suggestion. Nobody is punishing high levels or low levels.
The change would affect ALL players after spending X amount of time ingame. People putting more hours will still make more gold, more exp, etc. as usual just at lower rate after X amount of time played.

Why? Well because I believe, as it is in the suggestion above, it will help the server keep a high player base for longer by reducing the amount of time everyone needs grind, yes everyone, top players can benefit from this too (hardly any human can keep up the rate at which some people grind for long before it affects their real life)

Something I read a lot is people don't go pk because they only have a couple of hours left and they want to do that last 10% to be able to beat whatever.
Reducing that necessary grind let's you with more free time to pk, do boss, etc..

Totally disagree. Personally, if I were to play a mir server that restricted the amount I could grind I would not stick around long, kind of defeats the purpose imo. Pk/boss etc take literally no time out of your day so why would you need to restrict the people wanting to grind to enable something that you can already do that has such a minimal time consumption on the scale of a days play.

---------- Post Merged at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:45 PM ----------

I would also like to point out something that has yet to be mentioned. If you were to put any sort of restrictions on grinding, it would benefit high lvls more than low lvls, they high lvls have already put in their grinding hours, how would a low lvl ever catch up with restrictions on lvling put in place?

 

[levp]

I would also like to point out something that has yet to be mentioned. If you were to put any sort of restrictions on grinding, it would benefit high lvls more than low lvls, they high lvls have already put in their grinding hours, how would a low lvl ever catch up with restrictions on lvling put in place?

It would work like this:
Imagine a restriction is put starting after 20h/ week where every 5h after that you start making 10% less on XP/Drop/gold. So by hour 41 you are making 25% less everything.
Top player A plays 45h, but after 20h his progress slows.
Newb B plays 25h, after 20h his progress also slows but he only plays 5 more hours, not much difference.
Newb C( this guy has a week off from work) plays 45h like the player A. After 20h his progress also slows.

What happens? Player C is equally far from player A after 45h grind with new system as without, he has the same chance to catch player A as before, just playing more. BUT player B is less far from player A than without a system like this.

 

[Erebus]

But what you're missing from your equation is player A has already put in months of high hours of grinding which both player B and C would not be eligible for with your system meaning that it would make it nearly impossible to get to player A unless they straight up quit

---------- Post Merged at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:09 PM ----------

No matter which way it is spun and there is plenty of good arguments for it if you are a casual gamer, this thread was started as a suggestion to nerf hardcore gamers to make it easier for casual gamers and to put it bluntly, why in the world should a hardcore gamer be nerfed simply because he plays more than someone else? If you are a casual gamer you quite simply have to accept that there are going to be people higher than you. I get along fairly well with my lvling but I work a full time job and know I will never be the highest lvl but when I am on, I'm grinding from the minute I log on to when I log out baring the odd sub hunt. Why should my grinding be slowed down because someone else doesn't want or is unable to grind as much?

 

[levp]

But what you're missing from your equation is player A has already put in months of high hours of grinding which both player B and C would not be eligible for with your system meaning that it would make it nearly impossible to get to player A unless they straight up quit

So without the system B and C will have "high hours" as you call them and so will A. With system neither will, but early hours will count more, so time won't be much an issue. Kind of like... if everyone has a ferrari, no one has a ferrari... read my post above a couple of times and you should understand.

No matter which way it is spun and there is plenty of good arguments for it if you are a casual gamer, this thread was started as a suggestion to nerf hardcore gamers to make it easier for casual gamers and to put it bluntly, why in the world should a hardcore gamer be nerfed simply because he plays more than someone else? If you are a casual gamer you quite simply have to accept that there are going to be people higher than you. I get along fairly well with my lvling but I work a full time job and know I will never be the highest lvl but when I am on, I'm grinding from the minute I log on to when I log out baring the odd sub hunt. Why should my grinding be slowed down because someone else doesn't want or is unable to grind as much?

Read first post of this thread, if i'm bashing on any players is on bots. How will this mechanic be any worst than level scaling in place right now for any player? Maybe because besides XP also nerfs gold/drops. But then again, its not a nerf if every player gets the same...

 

[Erebus]

So without the system B and C will have "high hours" as you call them and so will A. With system neither will, but early hours will count more, so time won't be much an issue. Kind of like... if everyone has a ferrari, no one has a ferrari... read my post above a couple of times and you should understand.





Read first post of this thread, if i'm bashing on any players is on bots. How will this mechanic be any worst than level scaling in place right now for any player? Maybe because besides XP also nerfs gold/drops. But then again, its not a nerf if every player gets the same...

I understand completely I just disagree, your "early hours" theory is exactly the issue I dispute, why should you only gain for the first few hours, again nerfing hardcore players to benefit casual players.

As to your second point it is indeed a nerf, as I stated on hardcore players as you are looking to have this go into effect after x amount of hours so that casual gamers get full benefits meanwhile hardcore gamers are the ones being punished once the nerf kicks in

 

[Seanofsmeg]

Why do we need to slow the hardcore player down?

Doesn't mir do this itself with how grindy it gets at higher levels then followed by when other players start catching up any decent server will add new content meaning it is easier to accomplish what player A did in 40 hours in half the time therefore leaving catching up down to hard work and a good group

 

[ipwnu]

look at cashcow as an example the char simply never logs and is in bc all the time, you would have to be unemployed and put in many many many hours a week to compete with whoever hes selling gold to / "giving" the gold to.
how many spirit sets has he found in bc so far do you think ?

 

[Koriban]

You're welcome to argue it all you like, but we won't be punishing players for playing longer hours.

If you can come up with decent suggestions on how to help the casual player catch up without trivialising the effort players who've played the longest have done, then the suggestions thread welcomes you with open arms.

 

[ipwnu]

Personally don’t think we need to make it easier to catch up just make the server enjoyable at all levels.

 

[Piff1]

This is up there with LOMCNS most retarded threads. It would be like working overtime for 25% less than your normal rate people wouldn't bother.