End Game PvP

[DigitalDevil]

We are now at a point where end game PvP is a real thing, as more and more people approach the soft-cap of 75 we are going to encounter a problem.... that problem is spells are level based, meaning once the majority start to hit this point of the game their general PvP skills are pretty much disabled and rendered pointless....

How do Korea tackle this to keep PvP interesting and make it not become stale?

One option, and I think it was suggested before is to change the restrictions on these spells; something like the following:

Beckon:

Level 70 warrior: can beckon people lower AND the same level with the current success rate, beyond that they would be able to beckon upto three levels higher with a decreasing success change, so if the character been beckoned was level 71 the chance of success would decrease to 66%, if the were 72 it would decrease further to 55% and if they were level 73 it would decrease further still to 44% (figures are for example only, they have not data behind them so take them as a means to put the idea on paper).

Not sure how people would feel about this, most of the “elite” won’t like it as it means people of a lower level have a chance to fight back... the second part about the skills against higher levels would just be an addition, I feel the main issue will be a large % of the player base all reaching the same level and it removing a lot of the elements used within PvP (we already have too much of this with the current map restrictions imo).

 

[CremeEgg82]

The times I’ve played on Korean, open world PvP has been rare.

They leave most of it to organised PvP like wars, daily events, 1v1 arena and the battleground. Arena is handled completely differently to all the other areas you have set kit, set skills at level 3, set level at 90.

I don’t have a high level on there currently the test account I’ve used has a couple of level 40’s on and that’s about it, but my old account was 80 odd, I don’t remember skills being any different in terms of working on higher levels etc.

For them once getting max level (or at least to the soft cap) it’s just about farming better kit and for some it’s about the other leaderboards in game, mentor leaderboard, PvP leaderboards etc.

 

[blah1233]

No it kills cave fighting

 

[FNG]

The times I’ve played on Korean, open world PvP has been rare.

They leave most of it to organised PvP like wars, daily events, 1v1 arena and the battleground. Arena is handled completely differently to all the other areas you have set kit, set skills at level 3, set level at 90.

I don’t have a high level on there currently the test account I’ve used has a couple of level 40’s on and that’s about it, but my old account was 80 odd, I don’t remember skills being any different in terms of working on higher levels etc.

For them once getting max level (or at least to the soft cap) it’s just about farming better kit and for some it’s about the other leaderboards in game, mentor leaderboard, PvP leaderboards etc.

I'm a special snowflake.

 

[jaffar91]

<special snowflake quote>

Can someone just ban this troll already? lol

 

[DigitalDevil]

Can someone just ban this troll already? lol

Agreed, the forums toxic enough without muppets like him....

No it kills cave fighting

Can you expand on that as a five word sentence gives very little in the way of discussion about the topic? How would giving people the ability to use spells on higher levels kill cave fighting? How do you think this potential problem should be reviewed? What solutions do you propose? if you think things should stay as they are, why?

As far as I’m concerned the locking out of specific skills in caves has already done that, only Tao were unaffected with those changes, Wiz, War and Sin all took a hit.... some more than others....

 

[Koriban]

I can't ban the guy as I don't have sufficient permissions, but I will censor him until an actual mod turns up.

Carry on as you are, civil discussion.

 

[KillerMan]

The problem with Jamie is that he can’t think of a long term solution. I’ve informed him early on regarding guilds being too large and the effect it will have ingame but he dismissed it saying sorry but we can’t do that. No reason why, just a simple no. I understand it’s his server and he can do whatever he wants but a good server needs a healthy pvp/fight system in place.

I have even created an thread early - (http://www.lomcn.org/forum/showthread.php?98782-Guilds-are-too-big&highlight=)on which was ignored by Jamie and overlooked, the results is unfair balance. I appreciate the fact they’re looking into it and have altered the buffs accordingly but it’s too little too late in my opinion. If the buff is too extreme SD will cry, but if its other way around then THC will cry.

Most of the time when people are giving a suggestion it’s to improve a server, weather you see it that way or not but people just try to shut down discussion in any way possible. The only person I seen engaging with people and my suggestions is Shane. He would challenge them and sometimes makes me see stuff in his point of view

 

[CremeEgg82]

The problem with Jamie is that he can’t think of a long term solution. I’ve informed him early on regarding guilds being too large and the effect it will have ingame but he dismissed it saying sorry but we can’t do that. No reason why, just a simple no. I understand it’s his server and he can do whatever he wants but a good server needs a healthy pvp/fight system in place.

I have even created an thread early - (http://www.lomcn.org/forum/showthread.php?98782-Guilds-are-too-big&highlight=)on which was ignored by Jamie and overlooked, the results is unfair balance. I appreciate the fact they’re looking into it and have altered the buffs accordingly but it’s too little too late in my opinion. If the buff is too extreme SD will cry, but if its other way around then THC will cry.

Most of the time when people are giving a suggestion it’s to improve a server, weather you see it that way or not but people just try to shut down discussion in any way possible. The only person I seen engaging with people and my suggestions is Shane. He would challenge them and sometimes makes me see stuff in his point of view

I think part of the problem is everything seems to be associated in some way with SD or THC. I don't know what the current numbers for those guilds are, but lets say SD is approx. 80 and THC is approx. 20. That leaves roughly 200 other players on the server not in those guilds and potentially not even very vocal on the forums.

People's hatred towards these guilds and other certain players and in the past other guilds doesn't seem to take into account the majority of the player base. Those are the people that will likely still be here when all the others get bored or just piss each other off so much they quit.

Things seem pretty decent in game for the most part, seeing a lot of guilds around, seeing different groups going for different bosses. It doesn't seem as doom and gloom as is portrayed. So it's hard to pick up the real feedback from the emotional posts.

 

[KingCobra92]

Problem is its the same 20 people moaning on forums about how unbalanced the server is, what about the other 200 peoples voices? they are obviously enjoying it or they would come on forums and moan all day like all you do.

If every thread was acted on and the feedback on these forums listened to, the server would have died long ago

Its still holding a regular 100+ active players in peak times, obviously doing something right

You think your opinions are correct because 3/4 people agree with you on a thread on a forum that isnt even checked by 75% of the game

 

[DigitalDevil]

Problem is its the same 20 people moaning on forums about how unbalanced the server is, what about the other 200 peoples voices? they are obviously enjoying it or they would come on forums and moan all day like all you do.

If every thread was acted on and the feedback on these forums listened to, the server would have died long ago

Its still holding a regular 100+ active players in peak times, obviously doing something right

You think your opinions are correct because 3/4 people agree with you on a thread on a forum that isnt even checked by 75% of the game

So you think that once everyone is at soft cap and spells like assault, wraith grip, beckon can no longer be used that’s fine? As it doesn’t sound fine to me... and I think it’s something that requires open discussion before we reach that point and then any change should are too late...

Also, you maybe need to look at the difference between a discussion and “moaning”, look up some of the threads started by the likes of Hells, look at the style in which they are written, look and the lack of substance and the bratty type context.... maybe I should start my threads with “OMFG Warz 1337 with hax0r skilllllz in PvPz!!!!!” The problem with the forum are people like yourself.... if you don’t want to partake in the discussion about the topic the thread is based around then simply don’t post.... I’d appreciate it

k thnx bye x

 

[Drakay]

So you think that once everyone is at soft cap and spells like assault, wraith grip, beckon can no longer be used that’s fine? As it doesn’t sound fine to me... and I think it’s something that requires open discussion before we reach that point and then any change should are too late...

Also, you maybe need to look at the difference between a discussion and “moaning”, look up some of the threads started by the likes of Hells, look at the style in which they are written, look and the lack of substance and the bratty type context.... maybe I should start my threads with “OMFG Warz 1337 with hax0r skilllllz in PvPz!!!!!” The problem with the forum are people like yourself.... if you don’t want to partake in the discussion about the topic the thread is based around then simply don’t post.... I’d appreciate it

k thnx bye x

The world would be a better place without Wraith Grip :'(

 

[Koriban]

Things seem pretty decent in game for the most part, seeing a lot of guilds around, seeing different groups going for different bosses. It doesn't seem as doom and gloom as is portrayed. So it's hard to pick up the real feedback from the emotional posts.

This has been a Precedent in almost all successful Mir servers. Heck, even a year into Chronicles life people were spouting the usual doom and gloom servers dead crap constantly non stop on their forums, and it went on to outshine everything for years to come.

I've said it before but i'll say it again; a server is "dead" when the creator stops caring about his server, and I don't see that happening any time soon. Player interest in the server may die, but those are not one and the same. It's a weird mentality Mir players seem to have to want to take everything down with them when they leave, there's rarely a peaceful exit.

End-game PvP is always a fickle and annoying task to deal with because it is ever changing and nobody is ever not bias with their information. Not a single person, even if they claim to be - it's up to Jamie and Shane to actually get the numbers for themselves and decide what needs to be done. I will note that having Level-Required spells (Repulse/Beckon etc) work on people of the same level is easily achievable and perhaps would solve the problem of people all reaching the same level cap.

 

[CremeEgg82]

I will note that having Level-Required spells (Repulse/Beckon etc) work on people of the same level is easily achievable and perhaps would solve the problem of people all reaching the same level cap.

Even if as a starting point it works that you have 50% chance on all relevant spells at the same level as the opposing player and then gain 10% per level higher up to the max of 100% after being 5 levels higher than opponent, that could be something to test and see.

EDIT: I'll add that with it being chance based when you are the same level, it requires a little more skill in anticipating it working and having your next moves planned ahead. On failure it may have ruined a combo or other things and adds some element of adapting on the fly to the situation.

I've never been keen on it working the other way round too much (although there are some cases where I can see it working), as it diminishes the reward of levelling.

 

[KillerMan]

End-game PvP is always a fickle and annoying task to deal with because it is ever changing and nobody is ever not bias with their information. Not a single person, even if they claim to be - it's up to Jamie and Shane to actually get the numbers for themselves and decide what needs to be done. I will note that having Level-Required spells (Repulse/Beckon etc) work on people of the same level is easily achievable and perhaps would solve the problem of people all reaching the same level cap.

I completely dieagree with you here. Enabling beckon to work on same level would make this server even more of a warrior server. It’s already bad enough wizards are getting one-two hitted by a warrior, having a warrior teleport you is game over especially when it’s opposing side.

 

[Koriban]

I completely dieagree with you here. Enabling beckon to work on same level would make this server even more of a warrior server. It’s already bad enough wizards are getting one-two hitted by a warrior, having a warrior teleport you is game over especially when it’s opposing side.

I simply stated it's possible and could work, not that it would.

It's easier to criticise but less easy to offer suggestions, I agree with you, it's probably not in the best interest of the server for it to work that way but it's helpful to know that things are relatively easy to change for Jamie.

The problem I see it is, even if a level cap never exists, there comes a point (however long from now) where the exp gap is so exponential between levels that it literally does not matter, everyone will be the same level more or less. Which begs the question; do you level cap and wreak havoc on balance for a while until the level cap gets pushed up higher (i.e with an expansion or so), or do you change the way those spells interact with each other now and forever - which could also have an adverse effect on the server, and not have a level cap?

Food for thought.

 

[UnluckyXIII]

I completely dieagree with you here. Enabling beckon to work on same level would make this server even more of a warrior server. It’s already bad enough wizards are getting one-two hitted by a warrior, having a warrior teleport you is game over especially when it’s opposing side.

I agree it’s annoying as a Wiz (or any class for that matter) when a Warrior beckons you across the map but aside from Tiger the majority of PvP takes place in areas that already have limitations on the skills which can be used. So what do you suggest they do with these level based skills once the server matures and the majority sit at the soft cap, do we all just remove them from our hot-keys?

The problem I see it is, even if a level cap never exists, there comes a point (however long from now) where the exp gap is so exponential between levels that it literally does not matter, everyone will be the same level more or less. Which begs the question; do you level cap and wreak havoc on balance for a while until the level cap gets pushed up higher (i.e with an expansion or so), or do you change the way those spells interact with each other now and forever - which could also have an adverse effect on the server, and not have a level cap?

Food for thought.

Exactly this, we don’t know the actual roadmap for Zircon and sometimes people put ideas out there that maybe require more thought to consider impact and how it would effect the game on a whole (Although, I can see what the OP is getting at). At the moment everything seems fine (it’s great for me I can grip about 75%+ of the server lol), but what happens once we do all reach that soft cap? For now it’s a while off and for the majority something they won’t reach for a long time but it’s good that people are thinking about the future and giving Jamie things to think about so they can be reviewed and tested.

XIII