Global Cooldown for warrior/sin spells

[Koriban]

Can this get looked at?

Really annoying LionRoaring or Entrapping something for 6/4 seconds, only for 2 of those seconds to be used having to wait before you can charge TDB or FlameSword so you can then melee it.

Or Profield/Rage/Agil/Speed buffing yourself as warr/sin to then wait a few seconds before you can actually attack.

No other classes has to put up with this cooldown, since you removed it from wizzies.

 

[Samuel]

Can this get looked at?

Really annoying LionRoaring or Entrapping something for 6/4 seconds, only for 2 of those seconds to be used having to wait before you can charge TDB or FlameSword so you can then melee it.

Or Profield/Rage/Agil/Speed buffing yourself as warr/sin to then wait a few seconds before you can actually attack.

No other classes has to put up with this cooldown, since you removed it from wizzies.

I am confused by this one tbh... And can't pin point what it is everyone actually expects...

There is a time amount between casting (wizards/taoists have to wait x amount of mili seconds between being able to cast), this isn't a "cooldown" this is a core mechanic of casting spells...

Then there are actual cooldowns that force you to wait for x amount of time before being able to use that skill again, but this is done on an individual skill basis (ie if there is a cooldown of 5 seconds to charge fs, then you can still charge tdb in the time being).

Is the problem that when you use Rage for example, you can't use Pro field until the rage cooldown has happened?

What is the expectation here?

Sam

 

[DeeKayDee]

I am confused by this one tbh... And can't pin point what it is everyone actually expects...

There is a time amount between casting (wizards/taoists have to wait x amount of mili seconds between being able to cast), this isn't a "cooldown" this is a core mechanic of casting spells...

Then there are actual cooldowns that force you to wait for x amount of time before being able to use that skill again, but this is done on an individual skill basis (ie if there is a cooldown of 5 seconds to charge fs, then you can still charge tdb in the time being).

Is the problem that when you use Rage for example, you can't use Pro field until the rage cooldown has happened?

What is the expectation here?

Sam

The problem is mainly Rage / Pro field - I do believe LR and Entrap are fine, because they are defensive spells - So you very rarely need to attack straight afterwards.

The issue is Rage / Pro field have an initial cooldown period that forces you to do basic attacks for 2+ swings (depending on a.speed)

As an attacking spell we should be able to charge our tdb/fs and continue hitting as normal


Alot of detail in this thread - http://www.lomcn.org/forum/showthre...-global-cooldown-after-Rage-Entrap-are-casted

 

[xXxX]

I am confused by this one tbh... And can't pin point what it is everyone actually expects...

There is a time amount between casting (wizards/taoists have to wait x amount of mili seconds between being able to cast), this isn't a "cooldown" this is a core mechanic of casting spells...

Then there are actual cooldowns that force you to wait for x amount of time before being able to use that skill again, but this is done on an individual skill basis (ie if there is a cooldown of 5 seconds to charge fs, then you can still charge tdb in the time being).

Is the problem that when you use Rage for example, you can't use Pro field until the rage cooldown has happened?

What is the expectation here?

Sam

Basically with Rage/Profield/LionRoar/Entrap when you use for example Rage, you have to wait x amount of seconds before you can use tdb,flamesword etc even with lionroar you have to normal attack for a few seconds after ,again unable to use rage,profield,tdb,fs etc until that cooldown is up .It's really annoying and i was on the verge of posting this myself.

To break it down it currently goes :

*Rage* *normal hit* *normal hit* *normal hit* *normal hit* *TDB**FS* etc

Where as it should be:

*Rage* *tdb* *FS* etc

 

[Samuel]

OK I am still not 100% what the problem is... All mirs have an amount of seconds between casts of any spells its a fundamenta mechinism of the game... But maybe ours is slightly longer than normal... I have asked lcd to do a comparison with the Ruby files, so hopefully we might find out tonight.

Sam

---------- Post Merged at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:04 PM ----------

What are the skills effecting sins?

Sam

 

[ILovePie:D]

Sins flashdash has a delay on it, other than that, sins are spot on

 

[ziiid]

OK I am still not 100% what the problem is... All mirs have an amount of seconds between casts of any spells its a fundamenta mechinism of the game... But maybe ours is slightly longer than normal... I have asked lcd to do a comparison with the Ruby files, so hopefully we might find out tonight.

Sam

---------- Post Merged at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:04 PM ----------

What are the skills effecting sins?

Sam

As said flash dash, also casting agil buff, and speed buff both have the same long delay. Seems like it fits for other skills (like moonlight and swift feet)

 

[DeeKayDee]

OK I am still not 100% what the problem is... All mirs have an amount of seconds between casts of any spells its a fundamenta mechinism of the game... But maybe ours is slightly longer than normal... I have asked lcd to do a comparison with the Ruby files, so hopefully we might find out tonight.

Sam

---------- Post Merged at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:04 PM ----------

What are the skills effecting sins?

Sam

Because Rage, especially at lvl 0-2 you suffer a lot of dps due to it only been active a short time, been stood like a lemon in a crowd of mobs hitting 2-4 basic attacks before you can do anything is not worth even activating it

 

[Koriban]

OK I am still not 100% what the problem is... All mirs have an amount of seconds between casts of any spells its a fundamenta mechinism of the game... But maybe ours is slightly longer than normal... I have asked lcd to do a comparison with the Ruby files, so hopefully we might find out tonight.

Sam

---------- Post Merged at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:04 PM ----------

What are the skills effecting sins?

Sam

Basically, you should be able to charge a TDB or charge a flamesword immediately after casting Rage, Profield, LR or Entrapment. Currently it forces you to wait and in this time your only way of outputting damage through this period is a normal melee hit which, obviously, does no damage.

It might just be easier to allow TDB/FS to be charged immediately instead of having to wait the cooldown period?

 

[Turrican]

Sounds like its just the raise your sword animation, rather than specific spells.

 

[Razarus]

I've been giving this some thought and although I initially agreed that the cooldown after those spells (not the spell timer) was a bad thing I'm starting to understand the mechanic a little more..

If we compare warrior to wizard for example.

War is
*Rage* *normal hit* *normal hit* *normal hit* *normal hit* *TDB**FS* etc

Wiz is
*FlameField* *Wait* *FlameField* *Wait* *FlameField* *Wait* etc etc

If the cooldown was removed after these spells so that wars could do...

*Rage* *tdb* *FS* etc

Then Wiz should be able to

*FlameField* *Tstorm* *FlameField* *Tstorm* *FlameField* *Tstorm* etc etc



If you attack a mob as a Taoist and SFB at the same time you get..

SFB HIT HIT SFB HIT HIT SFB HIT HIT SFB

Removing the cooldown you would get
SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB


If anything can come from this thread its that there is NO global cooldown on TDB - it works every hit at ever aspeed and doesn't count as Casting a spell.
So when there is a delay to not use it it seems quite "wrong" when infact it should be (going by global cooldown rates)
TDB - HIT - HIT - TDB - HIT - HIT

That would break the Warrior and im not suggesting it should happen.
But maybe the global cooldown is actually ok?


I wouldnt like a Tao to SFB straight after an SFB or a wiz FF straight after an FF - they could solo Tstorm/FF stun everything without a cooldown

 

[Samuel]

I've been giving this some thought and although I initially agreed that the cooldown after those spells (not the spell timer) was a bad thing I'm starting to understand the mechanic a little more..

If we compare warrior to wizard for example.

War is
*Rage* *normal hit* *normal hit* *normal hit* *normal hit* *TDB**FS* etc

Wiz is
*FlameField* *Wait* *FlameField* *Wait* *FlameField* *Wait* etc etc

If the cooldown was removed after these spells so that wars could do...

*Rage* *tdb* *FS* etc

Then Wiz should be able to

*FlameField* *Tstorm* *FlameField* *Tstorm* *FlameField* *Tstorm* etc etc



If you attack a mob as a Taoist and SFB at the same time you get..

SFB HIT HIT SFB HIT HIT SFB HIT HIT SFB

Removing the cooldown you would get
SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB


If anything can come from this thread its that there is NO global cooldown on TDB - it works every hit at ever aspeed and doesn't count as Casting a spell.
So when there is a delay to not use it it seems quite "wrong" when infact it should be (going by global cooldown rates)
TDB - HIT - HIT - TDB - HIT - HIT

That would break the Warrior and im not suggesting it should happen.
But maybe the global cooldown is actually ok?


I wouldnt like a Tao to SFB straight after an SFB or a wiz FF straight after an FF - they could solo Tstorm/FF stun everything without a cooldown

^ exactly this... There is a "global cooldown" on every Mir server, there has to be because in terms of code, warriors, wizards, taoists and any other class all inherit from a base player (meaning they are all the same under the covers), the things that make them different are variables such has health/mana etc etc.

I have a few theories on why it might seem worse on here, but I don't want to say anything until we have a proper comparison with Ruby... However, I don't expect ruby to do:

RAGE > TDB.

I expect:
RAGE > Normal Hit > TDB

But we will see once LCD has done a comparison.

Sam

 

[ILovePie:D]

Let's not forget you can toggle on slaying, so your loss in DPS, isnt actually lost.

 

[DeeKayDee]

War is
*Rage* *normal hit* *normal hit* *normal hit* *normal hit* *TDB**FS* etc

Wiz is
*FlameField* *Wait* *FlameField* *Wait* *FlameField* *Wait* etc etc

If the cooldown was removed after these spells so that wars could do...

*Rage* *tdb* *FS* etc

Then Wiz should be able to

*FlameField* *Tstorm* *FlameField* *Tstorm* *FlameField* *Tstorm* etc etc

If you attack a mob as a Taoist and SFB at the same time you get..

SFB HIT HIT SFB HIT HIT SFB HIT HIT SFB

Removing the cooldown you would get
SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB SFB

If anything can come from this thread its that there is NO global cooldown on TDB - it works every hit at ever aspeed and doesn't count as Casting a spell.
So when there is a delay to not use it it seems quite "wrong" when infact it should be (going by global cooldown rates)
TDB - HIT - HIT - TDB - HIT - HIT

You are comparing melee to range though.

Range spells need a global cooldown, as like you said you would be able to FF/SFB constantly - this would be too OP

But for a melee, our only way to attack is to swing

Take for example XHM .. this is currently working correctly .. you can enable XHM and if you cast entrap, LR, Rage, any spell - you can continue to swing with XHM .. no global cooldown, no 2-3 normal swings.

I expect:
RAGE > Normal Hit > TDB

But it's more like 2 hits minimum (no speed) before you can tdb again, please test a warrior with speed 4 (very achievable) .. you'll soon see why it's annoying

Let's not forget you can toggle on slaying, so your loss in DPS, isnt actually lost.

slaying doesn't work like euro here, it's effectively a normal hit so it makes sense to disable it .. on euro i believe it was an increased damage hit ? correct me if i'm wrong

 

[Razarus]

You are comparing melee to range though.

Range spells need a global cooldown, as like you said you would be able to FF/SFB constantly - this would be too OP

But for a melee, our only way to attack is to swing

Take for example XHM .. this is currently working correctly .. you can enable XHM and if you cast entrap, LR, Rage, any spell - you can continue to swing with XHM .. no global cooldown, no 2-3 normal swings.

yeah I completely agree it would be OP for the ranged classes.

I think the question is - should melee be able to continually "cast" their spells (not the toggle ones as they become the "normal" hit when toggled) if other classes cant?

 

[ILovePie:D]

slaying doesn't work like euro here, it's effectively a normal hit so it makes sense to disable it .. on euro i believe it was an increased damage hit ? correct me if i'm wrong

Correct, slaying always increased DC and ACC for that one hit, test it out with luck7, it's the only way you'll find out if it does actually work as it always has.

 

[DeeKayDee]

yeah I completely agree it would be OP for the ranged classes.

I think the question is - should melee be able to continually "cast" their spells (not the toggle ones as they become the "normal" hit when toggled) if other classes cant?

Yes, how else will they do their damage?

It's like an assassin doing a heavenly sword then being put on a cooldown and forcing you to swing without your haste active

Correct, slaying always increased DC and ACC for that one hit, test it out with luck7, it's the only way you'll find out if it does actually work as it always has.

Can already tell it doesn't .. We'd keep it enabled if it was like a mini FS

 

[Razarus]

Yes, how else will they do their damage?

TDB and FS still do nice damage, having TDB usable on every hit is OP for a "tank" class
If you were supposed to be able to TDB every hit wouldnt it just be a toggle on/off skill like CHM/DoubleSlash/HalfMoon?

It's like an assassin doing a heavenly sword then being put on a global cooldown and forcing you to swing without your haste active

There is a global cooldown between Heavenly swords and haste/lightbody/shadowstep and hide.

If the Sin needed to press a key to activate double slash then after casting HS you would see them swing one handed. Thankfully DS replaces the normal attack as its toggle able.

Heavenly Sword doesn't have a skill cooldown just a global cool down, If that could be spam cast at a.speed 8 there would be an awful lot of unhappy everyone's.
so as that's melee do we remove that as well? Blade avalanche too spam that?

 

[Koriban]

TDB and FS still do nice damage, having TDB usable on every hit is OP for a "tank" class
If you were supposed to be able to TDB every hit wouldnt it just be a toggle on/off skill like CHM/DoubleSlash/HalfMoon?



There is a global cooldown between Heavenly swords and haste/lightbody/shadowstep and hide.

If the Sin needed to press a key to activate double slash then after casting HS you would see them swing one handed. Thankfully DS replaces the normal attack as its toggle able.

Heavenly Sword doesn't have a skill cooldown just a global cool down, If that could be spam cast at a.speed 8 there would be an awful lot of unhappy everyone's.
so as that's melee do we remove that as well? Blade avalanche too spam that?

Think point he's making is, A sin can HeavenlySword and then immediately start swinging and have full dps still, because there "attack" is just a toggle-on doubleslash.

Personally don't care all that much about Rage/Profield, but when I LionRoar or Entrap a mob or someones pets or clone, why do I have to wait 2 seconds (wasting 2 seconds of the Paralyse) to be able to actually damage that mob/pet/clone - or perhaps even just the person it belongs to.

 

[DeeKayDee]

Think point he's making is, A sin can HeavenlySword and then immediately start swinging and have full dps still, because there "attack" is just a toggle-on doubleslash.

Personally don't care all that much about Rage/Profield, but when I LionRoar or Entrap a mob or someones pets or clone, why do I have to wait 2 seconds (wasting 2 seconds of the Paralyse) to be able to actually damage that mob/pet/clone - or perhaps even just the person it belongs to.

This.

But kori you will when you get Rage trust me :P

Heavenly Sword doesn't have a skill cooldown just a global cool down, If that could be spam cast at a.speed 8 there would be an awful lot of unhappy everyone's.
so as that's melee do we remove that as well? Blade avalanche too spam that?

This is what we're on about, HS doesn't have a skill cooldown.. but Rage/LR etc has .. the global cool down is working fine - Edit: sorry I didn't mean to say global cooldown in my post above


Forgot about BA .. this is a ranged attack so this is fine to have a cooldown, it shouldn't be spam-able