Just another question about donation servers?
- Thread starter Dorf
- Start date
- May 2, 2009
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I agree with what you say, it is a legitimate topic and don't understand why 4 Heroes team think it was started for there benefit, as it was quite obvious to me that it aimed at all servers accepting cash right?
There is a plain, simple and easy method to run a small business and keep the Inland revenue happy, it is not rocket science and is available free at customs.hmrc.gov.uk.
If the person running the server earns less than £110 per week in income then they are not liable for Tax and NI as long as this is your sole income.
Keep a simple record of every penny you take and everything you pay out that is required to operate your server ie: Dedi costs, website hosting, banner advertising, PC upgrades and servicing, even charge for a proportion of electricity that you may use while running your business.
Keep as many receipts as you can that relate to what you have spent and store them safely for the full time your running the server and up to seven years after.
Don't forget that if the electronic money transfer systems (paypal etc..) are in your name, then the casy you collect through them should accurately reflect the amount you are posting in your cash book. Obviously this could be abused if someone set up accounts in different names :brows:
Once you get a good idea what your income is likely to be, phone HM revenue and customs and ask if they require you to register or not, keep a note whom you spoke to and the date etc.... If you use your head and keep things simple and below certain limits, they will most likely tell you to call back after a year.
This covers the basics but if done correctly will be all you need to do short term.
Donations are not tax exempt only charitys.
I was a quite a big seller on ebay and i was not vat registed but i had a turn number, but i payed tax.
The only worry i can see is if someone who is unemployed gets money and the dole fine out then problems will occur.
Tbh ive never seen so much talk about fines etc, only seems to have started since bens servers started.
lif
I was a quite a big seller on ebay and i was not vat registed but i had a turn number, but i payed tax.
The only worry i can see is if someone who is unemployed gets money and the dole fine out then problems will occur.
Tbh ive never seen so much talk about fines etc, only seems to have started since bens servers started.
lif
- Mar 12, 2005
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The thing I foind most funny is the fact if the server in question is offering a shop then my guess would be tax is the last thing on anyones mind.
IF they not worried about running an illigal game they will not be worried about tax.
Plus you may have been a seller on ebay but was that for virtual good or actual good brought online and sent?
again, you seem hell-bent on proving you can't or don't read? Post #4 had a link to HM revenues and customs from me? I despair!
As regards to Lif, I am merely interested, nothing to do with Ben or his server, I just wondered how they go about their tax when they have a shop selling a product. This then led me on to wondering about donations in general and the tax offices' view on them. Was just wondering the legal stand point, as everyone wants to get hung up on copyright, when in reality it's the tax man who is the biggest threat to any private server.
As has been mentioned on more than one occasion, getting around what makes hosting a server 'illegal' isn't that hard, avoiding Tax 100% however is, unless you're on a low income from it.
A bit busy with r/l atm, but glad to see things are (semi) back on track, it'd be much appreciated if you could keep this thread clean of flames Azura, as I'm sure people have plenty to learn from it.
As has been mentioned on more than one occasion, getting around what makes hosting a server 'illegal' isn't that hard, avoiding Tax 100% however is, unless you're on a low income from it.
A bit busy with r/l atm, but glad to see things are (semi) back on track, it'd be much appreciated if you could keep this thread clean of flames Azura, as I'm sure people have plenty to learn from it.
TY Tallos, someone who sees the thread for what it is, not what it's being made out to be. Next minute you'll be accused of being me, or leng.. As I alluded to previously, I'm sure this thread could help out lots of server owners, the thread is constructive, not meant to bring anybody down. Just wish these people could understand that the thread is meant to be informative, not as an attack on any one particular server.
So does anyone know definatively what needs to be done as regards to tax? I would assume it'd come under self-employment, and as such wouldn't fall under money earnt from employ by a third party or personal income, as it is monies received for a 'service'? Again this is such a grey area, I'm not entirely sure myself. I may give the tax office a call and ask them, then I can let everyone know. Surely it's better to know what can happen, than it just to happen and then try claiming ignorance, because courts take a dim view of that. I'll call them tomorrow and try and find out.
- Mar 12, 2005
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As has been mentioned on more than one occasion, getting around what makes hosting a server 'illegal' isn't that hard, avoiding Tax 100% however is, unless you're on a low income from it.
A bit busy with r/l atm, but glad to see things are (semi) back on track, it'd be much appreciated if you could keep this thread clean of flames Azura, as I'm sure people have plenty to learn from it.
Yes I know what you mean but I ment it in the server owners point of view, most people don't actually care.
Out of the thousands of private servers for many different games have I ever seen any server owner asking/worrying about tax evasion.
I cant clean the thread, I only have mod powers in the offical sections.
I can understand that, but many servers are purely donation to pay the hosting fees only, not making profit. I'm sorry 4heroes, but as you are a prime example, if you make say 400 pounds a week, which is 4 people out of the 300 odd who play? paying for the top gamegold gubbins, that works out at 1600 a month or £19200 per year, when you consider many may pay the smaller amount, this isn't small cash we are talking here, and as such the tax office won't see it as such either. This is the point I'm trying to make, it's important to be on the mark with taxation, this out of everything will be pursued til you die, copyright is small change in comparison.
This thread was purely made to find out what, if anything, server owners have done to ensure against prosecution from the taxman. Am interested to see what other server owners have done, Darkrealm etc or did they simply do nothing as 4 heroes seem to have done?
Good to see you were able to bring your collection of brain cells to this thread and give us some knowledgable and helpful information - Could you do us a favour and take it elsewhere though please?
Azura, 90% of those servers either cover their server costs, or don't even manage that - 9% of the 10 remaining will be on £110 p/w or less, so they don't have to give a crap. For the 1% that make a decent profit (which I hope to do) to the point they can make a living from it, we really need to know exactly what has to be done to save us from legal reprocussions. No-one is safe if they're making large amounts of money, Mr Taxman will get you sooner or later, personally I'd much rather plan in advance for this, so he doesn't have a reason to find me several years down the line.
Azura, 90% of those servers either cover their server costs, or don't even manage that - 9% of the 10 remaining will be on £110 p/w or less, so they don't have to give a crap. For the 1% that make a decent profit (which I hope to do) to the point they can make a living from it, we really need to know exactly what has to be done to save us from legal reprocussions. No-one is safe if they're making large amounts of money, Mr Taxman will get you sooner or later, personally I'd much rather plan in advance for this, so he doesn't have a reason to find me several years down the line.
Mr tallos has brains, it's the same question I have been asking from thread #1.. TY
Hey, I wouldn't (realistically) intend to make enough money to need to know about Tax and work arounds to it, without brains. ^^
It sounds like there's a great (illegal) way around it... Have a bunch of different PayPal accounts in different people's names (that you trust, obviously) and ensure that each one only takes £100 or less (£110 at most, but £100 to be safe) per week per person being paid and you're sorted. From what I've read already, if you had enough people, you could easily manage that and it wouldn't raise any suspicions from Mr Taxman.
Though I have the feeling the legal route is a better choice, especially if numbers get high.
It sounds like there's a great (illegal) way around it... Have a bunch of different PayPal accounts in different people's names (that you trust, obviously) and ensure that each one only takes £100 or less (£110 at most, but £100 to be safe) per week per person being paid and you're sorted. From what I've read already, if you had enough people, you could easily manage that and it wouldn't raise any suspicions from Mr Taxman.
Though I have the feeling the legal route is a better choice, especially if numbers get high.
What about past servers.. you think the tax man might latch on to them too? Hmm let me guess.. as I said, I'll call the tax office tomorrow, maybe I can get some verification as to what should be done, should I mention illegal copyright or not? I'm figuring all evidences gathered by the tax office are liable to be handed over for a court case for something illegal as matter for the course? Excuse me if I'm wrong..
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- May 2, 2009
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The Tax Man can go back 7 years in pursuit of unpaid revenue and if you do not have enough evidence to prove what your income has been over that period then he can, and most probably will, estimate it then add on interest.
If the Tax office felt that you had acted in a fraudulent manner and deliberately defrauded them, you would also be liable to a hefty fine.
As I said previously, companies such as PayPal have a legal responsibility to keep accurate records of all transactions made for a 7 year period so if the tax office did want ti investigate an individual it would be quite easy for them to do so via any transactions they have made online.
I doubt the tax office would be concerned about copyright infringement as they would probably be unable to get involved unless the owner of the copyright wanted to peruse it, but I suppose if they wanted to be awkward then they could quite easilly contact gamepot who currently own the licence to the new 2.6 files.
From initial investigation it seems nobody now owns the licence to the old Euro files and as Euro has been described in wemede's last report as having " ceased to be productive as a revenue generating tool " it seem as they may have gave up on it. I wonder if they received a silly offer for the European rights would they sell them?
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does any1 honestly care.....
leng u havnt got a clue wot ur on about, i cba to even read ur post but i spoted this bit:
"contact gamepot who currently own the licence to the new 2.8 files."
u realize 2.8 files are just the released DM2 2.6 files, which have NOTHING at all to do with USA lol... no sorry why did i just say that, of course u dont realize, thats why u keep makin urself look so stupid
leng u havnt got a clue wot ur on about, i cba to even read ur post but i spoted this bit:
"contact gamepot who currently own the licence to the new 2.8 files."
u realize 2.8 files are just the released DM2 2.6 files, which have NOTHING at all to do with USA lol... no sorry why did i just say that, of course u dont realize, thats why u keep makin urself look so stupid
Surprising, the thread is off-topic once again. Let me clean the above idiocy up;
"No don't bother mentioning copyright infringement as they won't care a less unless the people that own the copyright contact them directly and want them to help (I would assume whatever company owns the copyright they'd be taking it to court and saying 'this person/server/company has made £xxxx from our work over xx days/months/years - Their Paypal account shows this')".
Now if people would kindly stfu about 4H (both sides are guilty of it, again) and "Who cares" - If you don't care, piss off to another thread because clearly some of us do and I'm getting sick of having every thread I'm interested in trashed by childish and petty arguments, stick a bloody cork in it.
"No don't bother mentioning copyright infringement as they won't care a less unless the people that own the copyright contact them directly and want them to help (I would assume whatever company owns the copyright they'd be taking it to court and saying 'this person/server/company has made £xxxx from our work over xx days/months/years - Their Paypal account shows this')".
Now if people would kindly stfu about 4H (both sides are guilty of it, again) and "Who cares" - If you don't care, piss off to another thread because clearly some of us do and I'm getting sick of having every thread I'm interested in trashed by childish and petty arguments, stick a bloody cork in it.