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Mu online season 21 - grand opening

Azze

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May 6, 2013
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I barely post in LOMCN, hope the guy is still around and working on something

**** your negativity people, swear something similar to Chron could be recreate in a better way.
 

cary

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Sep 3, 2016
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“Crystal is the only open source set of Mir 2 files, I’d argue the best option but people have their own views.” - @Jev

Haha, A lot of folks are still using the early Delphi-based open source code to develop their own clients/servers, C# is really good at simplifying the logic not the performance and security on client-side(I like it to be the first option on server-side), that's why C/C++ still dominates the client side, Pascal is even older, you could say what C/C++ can do equals what Pascal can do, each programming language has their own domain, at least C# is not the one for the high performance purpose, if people want to really achieve that, Currently, I guess Unity is the only option, because of the IL2CPP mechanism.
 

Tai

HEAD CAPTAIN
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May 11, 2003
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“Crystal is the only open source set of Mir 2 files, I’d argue the best option but people have their own views.” - @Jev

Haha, A lot of folks are still using the early Delphi-based open source code to develop their own clients/servers,

Name one server using delphi files released in the last 10 years.

I'll start. Rise of the Archons - Scorpian (2017)

Now it's your turn.
 

Jev

Mir 4 Incoming!
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Name one server using delphi files released in the last 10 years.

I'll start. Rise of the Archons - Scorpian (2017)

Now it's your turn.
I was litrally going to say the same thing, I'm not saying delphi is crap, I've never played around with the delphi servers so can't really give my "views" on it. but I can on the most used server type :kekw:
 

cary

Loyal Member
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Sep 3, 2016
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Name one server using delphi files released in the last 10 years.

I'll start. Rise of the Archons - Scorpian (2017)

Now it's your turn.


@Tai

- TorchM2 - The oldest one some developers are still working on for their own Mir2/Mir3/Wool
- AceM2
- HeroM2 - Classic one still exists for some GMs
- BlueM2 - Open sourced only in the Chinese community - various new features
- GomM2 - Very white-hot one for tens of hundreds GMs
- GeeM2 - Very white-hot one for hundreds of thousands GMs
- TopM2
- Many more, haha.
 
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Jev

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@Tai

- TorchM2 - The oldest one some developers are still working on for their own Mir2/Mir3/Wool
- AceM2
- HeroM2 - Classic one still exists for some GMs
- BlueM2 - Open sourced only in the Chinese community - various new features
- GomM2 - Very white-hot one for tens of hundreds GMs
- GeeM2 - Very white-hot one for hundreds of thousands GMs
- TopM2
- Many more, haha.
Where are all these GM's at?
 

Chriz

Captain Lurker
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C# is really good at simplifying the logic not the performance and security on client-side(I like it to be the first option on server-side), that's why C/C++ still dominates the client side, Pascal is even older, you could say what C/C++ can do equals what Pascal can do, each programming language has their own domain, at least C# is not the one for the high performance purpose, if people want to really achieve that, Currently, I guess Unity is the only option, because of the IL2CPP mechanism.
Hmm, I disagree, C# can be just as performant and as secure as C++/Delphi clients.

For example, I have been working on a new client that is C# based, using OpenGL with advanced rendering techniques, plus tight control on memory usage to practically nullify the effects of GC. Also with the ability of AOT compiling C# can produce a native binary which is just as secure as C++/Delphi. I don't see the down sides..

Can you give me some insight into the performance differences/issues that you see compared to general Crystal c#?


 
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Jev

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Hmm, I disagree, C# can be just as performant and as secure as C++/Delphi clients.

For example, I have been working on a new client that is C# based, using OpenGL with advanced rendering techniques, plus tight control on memory usage to practically nullify the effects of GC. Also with the ability of AOT compiling C# can produce a native binary which is just as secure as C++/Delphi. I don't see the down sides..

Can you give me some insight into the performance differences/issues that you see compared to general Crystal c#?


@kill Radius is wild
 
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cary

Loyal Member
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Sep 3, 2016
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Where are all these GM's at?

@Jev

All in mainland China, the user base including GMs and players is huge, and also, for those VIP users, they always love Mir2 along with their age increasing, some companies are very successful for targeting these users, one of them is what is called 996M2.
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Hmm, I disagree, C# can be just as performant and as secure as C++/Delphi clients.

For example, I have been working on a new client that is C# based, using OpenGL with advanced rendering techniques, plus tight control on memory usage to practically nullify the effects of GC. Also with the ability of AOT compiling C# can produce a native binary which is just as secure as C++/Delphi. I don't see the down sides..

Can you give me some insight into the performance differences/issues that you see compared to general Crystal c#?


For performance, As far as I know, the AOT mechanism is quite new, the compatibility varies in different platforms and OS versions, and it requires more effort to achieve that goal sometimes, because less experience you can directly get from the community, I admit that if you don't consider time, every programing language can be the one for your best option, personally I like to choose the abundant ecosystem, at least in Mir2, Delphi is sort of the king in the Mir2 ecosystem, I see none of the companies in China use Crystal as their choice, that's the reality.

For security, as you don't mention, I'd like to go through a bit, the AOT compiling traits can be figured out easier than the real native applications as it's packed by a unique rule, If someone found a trait and shared it out, that affects all the AOT applications, currently I don't see any external packer like Themida to protect the C# AOT based applications, please let me know if you have used one.

And also, never look down the powerful inline ASM, the assembly code can do more for the reverse engineering, If you don't know how your opponent's doing, you can think about it, what disaster would be.
 
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mir2pion

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Feb 21, 2013
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Delphi is sort of the king in the Mir2 ecosystem, I see none of the companies in China use Crystal as their choice, that's the reality.
This talk about code security is over my head but aren't all Chinese and Asian servers generally overran by bots (every server reboot, you get lines of them marching to their positions) which looks to me like an officially sanctioned way of playing on those servers. Security issues that result in cheating would actually strike me as refreshing by comparison, much less harmful IMO than those bots, which are simply sick way of playing.

I don't think cheating security and bots have to do with code kind, but player mentality.
 
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cary

Loyal Member
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Sep 3, 2016
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This talk about code security is over my head but aren't all Chinese and Asian servers generally overran by bots (every server reboot, you get lines of them marching to their positions) which looks to me like an officially sanctioned way of playing on those servers. Security issues that result in cheating would actually strike me as refreshing by comparison, much less harmful IMO than those bots, which are simply sick way of playing.

I don't think cheating security and bots have to do with code kind, but player mentality.
Guess you mean AI players, AI player domain is another topic, this could be huge in the business consideration, if your algorithm is good enough, you can get a fortune, lots of investors really like it.