- Jan 14, 2004
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President Obama
- Thread starter Xanan
- Start date
Wealth redistribution exists to some extent in every industrialised nation in the world. That includes the USA. It's just been used now to scare ignorant people like you into thinking Obama is a socialist, which is one of the most hilariously absurd suggestions ever put forth in political debate, especially considering America's history of Red Scares (which were themselves a pathetic display of paranoia and alarmism). I would have thought you would have learned by now, but I guess there really are no limits to human ignorance.
why do you hate poor people?
yeah you're right almost no other county offers free healthcare. Apart from France, the United Kingdom, Germany, Austria, Belgium, Japan, Sweden, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Ukraine, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, Cuba, Panama, Peru, Uruguay, Venezuela, Australia, New Zealand, India, Thailand, Singapore and the list goes on and on because it just so happens that the USA is the only wealthy nation in the world without universal healthcare.
btw mind explaining how universal healthcare, aka SOCIALISED MEDICINE, isn't socialistic?
I know. I was hoping you were joking about being happy about it.
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kad for president free gym membership for all especially lomcn members get der fat asses out dem chairs ya'll
I came up with the socialist idea back in December when he was first running. McCain wants a safe exit strategy that will ensure Iraqi freedom, Obama just wants to get the hell out, not good in my opinion. McCain isn't just a war vet, he is a war hero - not even Obama could deny that. I really don't care how much my country spends on it's defense, as long as I'm safe - I couldn't care less. Borat is a pig who deserves to be shot, I really don't know any American that likes that movie. And until you've been here, people should keep their opinon's to themselves. Every state is different and every state has a different feelings. I don't judge England because I've never been their, so people should keep their overweight opinons to themselves. Not everyone is fat. In fact, I recently took a trip to Texas and Lousianna which are extremely southern states and to be honest everything there was completely nice. The women say "baby" at the end of each sentence which is kind of cool, and the men say sir and ma'am to the ladies. The problem with the world is that they believe movies, which is stupid. I'm not saying Obama won't do good things, I'm hoping he actually fixes this economy that has plagued this great nation. And Texas electoral votes went to McCain, I really don't see how that is relavent. Have you ever been to Texas?
Please show me to some nations that use wealth distribution to this extreme that are NOT socialistic? I don't hate poor people. America was built on freedom. If I made $500,000 a year, 40% of that already goes to taxes, now Obama wants to take more so he can give it to cracked out hoes, come to America - go to Compton, California. Look for yourself. Crack addicts using government funding's to pay for drugs or frivolous stuff. It isn't right that just because you make more money that you should have to give it to poor people. I misworded what I wrote before, I meant to say "almost no LIVABLE COUNTRY has free healthcare, and I really don't see how that is socialized medicine, healthcare in America is extremely exspensive for a good plan. I really am happy that gay marriage is banned, no joke. I'm sorry if that offends you.
- Dec 29, 2003
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I've got family that live in Texas (they're actually Kiwis though, long story) and have been there about 3 times in my life, along with New York, Ohio and California. (I like to get out of England, I can't stand it).
I wasn't giving you my opinion of America, I was giving you my opinion of a stereotype of America which I experience first hand being third party to the country. I like America, and have a vested interest in its development. It's all very well to claim that if you don't live or have never been to America to but out, but what you must remember is that your country impacts on the rest of the world, you getting McCain over Obama changes the world, visa versa. We're supposed to be your closest ally, which means that any decision your country makes we either have to politically back or find a way out of it.
The fact of the matter is that your decisions as a country change the world and its opinion. And over the last 10 years that has had a big impact, mostly negative.
McCain might well be a war hero, but there's a difference between a solider and a politician, and it's a massive difference. Putting an experienced solider in that position is very very unwise. I don't doubt that his intentions are noble and that he has your best interests at heart, but politics is a completely different game. We live in a world where nearly every country has the ability to wipe another off the face of the planet. America especially is on very thin ice with the superpowers in this world, and it needs a politician, not a war hero to change that.
Patriotism gets you no where. Keeping your enemies closer and your relationships strong is what makes you great.
Obama is only 47 years old. He has barely enough experience to be a senator or a governor of a state, let alone lead the most powerful country in the world. And I do agree you with you, America is the "trend setter". Take the economy for example, America's is ****ed up, now look and China and Russia and the rest of the world, all ****ed up. We need a president that isn't afraid of Iran or North Korea, considering they both said they want to destroy America. America is already on thing ice because we are allies with Israel, and there is nothing no president can do about that since that will most certainly never change. You say patriotism gets you no where, I said no patriotism gets you no where. I don't want a president who doesn't like the national anthem because it has the words "bombs bursting in air" in it. It not only offends me but every man or woman that has ever died to defend this country. I can't blame you and the rest of the world for Bush's mistakes, but a lot things is not his fault, like the economy, you can blame Clinton for that in 1995 for abolishing a law that sets no limits to subprime mortgages. Bush tried to prevent this economic crisis when he tried to reissue the bill in 2001, 2005, and 2007. All three times he was denied by Democrats, Obama's party. I really don't see how Obama will change much if his own party doesn't agree with change. And about Sacha Cohen (Borat) and that Russel Brand guy are complete morons, everyone in America hates them both. No offense but they are probably the worst things England has ever produced.
On a side note, I have a couple of questions.
1) Obviously I don't live in England, what do people think of Obama over there?
2) Texas is hotter than the 5th lair of hell huh? Haha.
Can I just say one thing on the whole matter.
Wether or not you are American or from out of space, america now has a new president. Only time will tell if he is any good or not, but lets just hope that he doesn't stray the same way Bush did.
And anyone, who thinks that troops should be left in Iraq. Should also remember that the troops shouldn't have been there in the first instance. The inteligance from the so called WMD dossay was all lies, yes it did over throw sadam but America put him there in the first place.
We can go over history and look at all the mistakes that have been made by presidents, but we can also go over the things that they did to contribute to there country.
I say give Obama a chance, time will tell and its also better to have a non war vet in place than a war vet who will be more than happy to go to war. Just to show the size of his balls off.
Wether or not you are American or from out of space, america now has a new president. Only time will tell if he is any good or not, but lets just hope that he doesn't stray the same way Bush did.
And anyone, who thinks that troops should be left in Iraq. Should also remember that the troops shouldn't have been there in the first instance. The inteligance from the so called WMD dossay was all lies, yes it did over throw sadam but America put him there in the first place.
We can go over history and look at all the mistakes that have been made by presidents, but we can also go over the things that they did to contribute to there country.
I say give Obama a chance, time will tell and its also better to have a non war vet in place than a war vet who will be more than happy to go to war. Just to show the size of his balls off.
Switzerland, Norway, Australia, Ireland, Sweden, Japan, Denmark, The Netherlands, France, Germany, Belgium and many more countries have better quality of life than America according to studies. All have free healthcare. Free healthcare is otherwise known as socialised medicine. Free healthcare is a socialistic system, it's not up for debate, and it's also beside the point. I never said wealth redistribution wasn't socialistic, but it doesn't make a country or a person a socialist if they support it. Socialism is way more complex than that. Further, Obama is not taking wealth redistribution to an 'extreme' by anyone's measure. He's bringing it on level with much of Europe, if that. You may think that your taxes go to helping crack addicts, but I can assure you this is in the vast minority of cases. There are many, many people who need the welfare your taxes pay for so that they can, y'know, live. Even Adam Smith, who is pretty much the founder of modern capitalism, believed that the government must be funded by those best able to afford it. Also, I don't think you get how income tax works. You only pay that 40% on the money you earn above the tax band.
There are also a number of socio-economic arguments to be made here, such as that financial inequality breeds crime, but I won't go into it.
More importantly, have you actually read Obama's tax policies? Unless you're earning over 600k a year, then you win my friend. If you do happen to earn more than that, then you still win because you're freaking rich.
Intelligence from not only the US, but from England and Russia.
It's over $250,000 actually. And where are these studies exactly? America isn't the place place to live, especially California. Until you've been to the welfare office in California, you haven't seen anything. It's full of a) crack addicts and b) rich people who are on welfare. I saw someone pull up to get a check in a Cadillac the other day. I don't think it's right that the richer have to pay for another person's life and clinics likes Planned Parenthood, which is funded by private citizens and tax dollars.
- Dec 29, 2003
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Your points are true, but it's the way in which those points are delivered and solved that's the problem. Americans, through Bush, have projected this image of believing the only way to solve a problem is by force. Which isn't true, all you need is diplomacy. And thankfully you've elected a diplomat and not someone that shoots first and thinks later. You spend half a trillion a year on military budgets, half a trillion.. that's such an insane amount of money for peace of mind. An insane amount of money that could be considerably dropped with the election of one man that knows how to talk to people, knows how to drive his country and more importantly knows how to drive other countries.
The economic crisis is a slightly different matter and really is down to the greedy private sector and the capitalist world we live in, and was bound to happen to humanity regardless of boundaries (if not now later). All of our governments have let us down in one way or another, that's a fact - but it's not quite as clear cut as the media makes out for the government to do the 'right thing'. Another term that's used far too often to describe a sector of people displeased by a decision that was going to displease someone anyway.
With regards to Sasha and Brand, no one over here really likes Brand anyway. But most of us think Sasha is a legend, but he does have a sense of humour not accustomed to the US, and obviously pissed off the US big time with his antics.
As for the elections, the only people I know that didn't want Obama in power were people who didn't like him because he was black (although technically, as I still maintain.. he's just as white as he is black). But they were said in jest too. And even those who meant it seriously didn't want McCain in either. I think all round the consensus here is that McCain was out of the question and although Obama has yet to prove himself but we welcome him to have a go.
As for Texas, couldn't stand the weather when I went in summer... that's what I get for being a pasty Brit. And that was northern Texas too. To be honest I didn't like the state much in comparison to Cali/NY. The locals were really friendly but seemingly dense, in as much as it was hard to maintain a conversation which had any depth (and I was 13 at the time lol), I don't know if it was just the area (was pretty rural) or southerners in general. I couldn't live there anyway. California was the best place I went, could definitely live there, although again would have to get used to the really hot days, and the accents are pretty annoying.
Nope, that tax band stays more or less the same according to everything I've seen. (actually gets a $12 tax break but thats pretty insignificant)
The Economist's World's Most Livable Cities 2008
http://www.economist.com/markets/rankings/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11116839
Mercer's Quality of Living Survey 2008
http://www.mercer.com/referencecontent.htm?idContent=1307990#Top50_qol
Have you ever been to Europe? Specifically countries like Sweden and The Netherlands? They are fantastic places to live. They're very wealthy, their economies are strong, and yet the gap between rich and poor is comparatively tiny. And Sweden is actually borderline socialist.
And come on man, anecdotal evidence? You don't honestly think you can get an accurate cross section of welfare users by looking into the welfare office do you? And do you not think, that the reason there are so many drug addicts around is because of some bigger social problem, i.e. poverty, which would be relieved by greater income redistribution? And your state recently voting no on a proposition that would have vastly improved rehabilitation facilities for drug offenders (prop 5?)? your "fuck you I got mine" mentality is very early 20th century and it's been more or less proven by now that if you want a stable economy and a cohesive society, it is not the way to go.
Most of the intelligence source came from HS & CIA, this was also pointed out that this was only hearsay information and not to be fully acted on.
This was the same with regards to the 9/11, US intelligence also knew of this. But choose not to act on due to the information coming from hearsay
sources. Yet they went to war against a country for WMD and found nothing, this is what happens when you have a vet in place, Someone who is
More than eager to go to war against a country if the needs suit them.
This is what happened with Iraq, US saw this as an opportunity to get their hands on the oil reserves in Iraq and the US now have the rights to
rebuild Iraq, but not the rest of the world. I for one hope that Obama does pull the troops out of Iraq, as the rest of the world will follow. Seeing
as the rest of the world appear to be lap dogs towards America.
Whatever Obama used to get into the White House is irrelevant, all presidents to date have used the same tactics. Using the current world climate to
better their own gains. George Bush used the war on terrorism and gun laws in the US to stay in power for a second time. Let’s just hope that history
doesn’t repeat itself over again and see something other than wanting to go to war comes from all this.