Sunpot Delay

[GimmeAKitKat]

It's not fun killing bosses by walking in/out of doors.

It's not fun killing bosses by trapping them in the middle of the room with pets, and killing with ranged from an area which barely gets hit.

Yes, all of the bosses ingame are killable. If you can stand next to DemonKing and kill it as warrior and sins, with the new 1 second sunpot delay, then I applaud you. It was hard enough to do with the previous.

The current sunpot thing, its wizards who will benefit the most from it. Walk in to people, cast FF, which delivers 250-400 with a good kit. Spammable, yet you aren't able to counter this. With a wizards shield up, their damage taken is reduced by 2/3rds. So a wizard is able to stand and "tank" all other classes, hitting massive damage, and able to Sunpot peoples damage taken (not forgetting HP pot regen rate is also high).

Not intended as an insult or incitement, but simply put, the last page or so of posts from Team members has simply confirmed that you seem unable to adapt and find new ways of legitimately killing these bosses. As Sam has said, teamwork and the right skillsets and group makeup are required to kill these bosses, and it makes them far more rewarding to kill properly. Relying on 10 year old easy kill styles that have been in all previous Mir's is a mistake. Personally I think Sam and the team have done a brilliant job making the high end bosses here a challenge not only to figure out but then also to kill. Rotating through standard Mir kill styles until you find the one that makes it a walkover is not fun in my opinion. Consistently being challenged and risking a wipe is.

 

[Doug]

Even me and winters don't die on end game bosses, with a sunpot delay... That's insulting to the rest of server struggling...
ME AND WINTERS....

 

[ILovePie:D]

Not intended as an insult or incitement, but simply put, the last page or so of posts from Team members has simply confirmed that you seem unable to adapt and find new ways of legitimately killing these bosses. As Sam has said, teamwork and the right skillsets and group makeup are required to kill these bosses, and it makes them far more rewarding to kill properly. Relying on 10 year old easy kill styles that have been in all previous Mir's is a mistake. Personally I think Sam and the team have done a brilliant job making the high end bosses here a challenge not only to figure out but then also to kill. Rotating through standard Mir kill styles until you find the one that makes it a walkover is not fun in my opinion. Consistently being challenged and risking a wipe is.

No offense taken. Have you tried to kill EE since this change? Or do you simply give up because of fights there? Have you tried to kill this boss 'legitimately'? Can you outpot its damage? Or even res your members upon death? Is Sam/BH actually aware that the boss tele's to people in the room? I mean, after all he wondered how I managed to 'lure' it to the door.

They should make the mobs in Hell 2 / 3 floor all walk about randomly, to stop people luring them off the path that is used to run to the Bosses. Thus making it harder. Bring back Mages.

DK can easily be killed by blocking it in the middle of the room. As easy as the days when people would untame pets to kill Warlord.

Sam said that the AI on this game would be good. It's no different to killing bosses over walls back on euro mir. Killing a boss on the edge of the screen with wizards, and having taos on the edge of their screen, really isn't game breaking tactics.

You say you want a challenge, but you guys were the first to whine about any changes to your beloved fox boss because it was an easy kill, and dropped amazingly. I've already stated many changed which should have happened there to make it harder.

 

[Doug]

What does the fox boss say?

 

[bayya]

W

With the new sun pots some of the bosses are near impossible, but to me it makes it more fun.

On another point the bosses we are talking about are end game bossesi

So with the number of players right skill set you will be just fine- High level chars with level 3 shield etc etc to help you. Like I said
HAve you ever been shielded to stop you dying? DO you ever die and get reincarnated by a tao?

---------- Post Merged at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 01:05 PM ----------

They should make the mobs in Hell 2 / 3 floor all walk about randomly, to stop people luring them off the path that is used to run to the Bosses. Thus making it harder. Bring back Mages.
DK can easily be killed by blocking it in the middle of the room. .

Just out of interest is this really how you kill the boss without Winters dyin? Take all teh difficulty of getting there away?
Weren't people sayin make it so everyone has to kill thru to the boss to stop ppl just runnin there?
But not in the high level end game cave. looool

 

[Doug]

Me n winters are pro now best wizards ingame Barr zuess n clintus

 

[Muh]

Just out of interest is this really how you kill the boss without Winters dyin? Take all teh difficulty of getting there away?
Weren't people sayin make it so everyone has to kill thru to the boss to stop ppl just runnin there?
But not in the high level end game cave. looool[/QUOTE]

You are quite clearly retarded. Whenever we go somewhere we always clear...exp is king. Hence why our guild dominates the rankings.

Thanks for coming.

/Mord

 

[ILovePie:D]

You are quite clearly retarded. Whenever we go somewhere we always clear...exp is king. Hence why our guild dominates the rankings.

Thanks for coming.

/Mord

Just like the route to JD and Gk is all lured off :encouragement:

 

[Muh]

Just like the route to JD and Gk is all lured off :encouragement:

You are not that thick.

/Mord

 

[Azz]

we do not lure off to GK we kill the route.

To answer other questions no I do not get a bubble of shame of a tao. I use health hax

 

[Muh]

Either way, suns are fine...lol@crying u rinsed 32 suns, don't think our whole group uses 32 suns ...
1 Per second is more than enough, your asking to regen 400-90 Hp Per second..100 is enough+pot regen and heal..

/muh

 

[GimmeAKitKat]

Seems Team's main issue then is with the kill of EE? personally I don't kill it as I find other bosses more beneficial and more enjoyable, not to mention it has spent more time bugged/broken than not. If it is EE that you take issue with, then ask Sam and the team to review that boss, not simply get rid of a beneficial change to sun pots. All this sounds like is you find one boss un-killable without being able to spam sunpots, if that's the case, the boss itself would need looking at, not the sun pots. If the point of bosses was to spam suns through them, why bother with incremental pots at all.

As for hell mobs, they do roam like most other mobs, only orbs are stationary when not agro'd and the route down to KR is never empty because of luring. We also agree mages are a good thing in hell and hopefully will be returned if/when the team have a way to stop them being abused too much, from Forsaken's perspective Mages in hell were always a good thing, as they make it much harder for small groups to run through straight to the bosses, and Forsaken generally hunt in large groups, so we like to clear through places.

As for Fox Boss, im not certain what changes you mean, but the fact Team and TKO love to suggest Forsaken only kill Fox boss got very old and very inaccurate many months ago. I don't think iv even been to kill fox since before Christmas.

 

[Muh]

Seems Team's main issue then is with the kill of EE? personally I don't kill it as I find other bosses more beneficial and more enjoyable, not to mention it has spent more time bugged/broken than not. If it is EE that you take issue with, then ask Sam and the team to review that boss, not simply get rid of a beneficial change to sun pots. All this sounds like is you find one boss un-killable without being able to spam sunpots, if that's the case, the boss itself would need looking at, not the sun pots. If the point of bosses was to spam suns through them, why bother with incremental pots at all.

As for hell mobs, they do roam like most other mobs, only orbs are stationary when not agro'd and the route down to KR is never empty because of luring. We also agree mages are a good thing in hell and hopefully will be returned if/when the team have a way to stop them being abused too much, from Forsaken's perspective Mages in hell were always a good thing, as they make it much harder for small groups to run through straight to the bosses, and Forsaken generally hunt in large groups, so we like to clear through places.

Perhaps reducing the xp of said mob rez'd, like they did with the zombies in the mines?

 

[Samuel]

Perhaps reducing the xp of said mob rez'd, like they did with the zombies in the mines?

Nice idea, mind opening a suggestion thread? It helps me keep track of it

Sam

 

[GimmeAKitKat]

Perhaps reducing the xp of said mob rez'd, like they did with the zombies in the mines?

Half the exp would probably do a lot to stop the mage levelling, but id guess the drop farming was the main issue. DD spent a lot of time farming the mass drop Soul Devourer in there shortly before mages were taken out, so iv always assumed that was the main issue, ontop of the exp gain. I assume the fact that the mass drop was repeated every time that same mob was res'd and killed has something to do with how drop files themselves are worked, and so amending that would be a less straight forward change.

I assume DD made a lot of exp and cash combined farming the mass drop SD, not only do you rinse repeat a mass drop that can contain fairly regular OSR's etc, but ontop of the easy exp from the soul devourer itself, they made additional easy exp from the maggots, and further ontop of that, could have somebody farming those maggots for LR books.

Maybe like you say take pretty much a copy n paste from Zombies would work, not only lowering the exp, but eventually having a limit on how many times they can res.

 

[bayya]

So it seems that only a select few with the right skills can work out the tactics to kill certain bosses? They are all in Forsaken?
There are well known experienced players in other guilds
Which floor is lured?
I cant even go in there yet so I cant go and have a look for myself.
Am guessing level 48 skills will do if you say your level 50s dont hunt.
Same analysis
of the 90 level 48+ players
Forsaken have 31 if 7 level or dont play that leaves a pool of 24
DD have 16
Team 17
TKO 6
VIP 5
Rest 15
So the message is level like trains by any mean possible and buy exp potion by the truckload

 

[ILovePie:D]

Seems Team's main issue then is with the kill of EE? personally I don't kill it as I find other bosses more beneficial and more enjoyable, not to mention it has spent more time bugged/broken than not. If it is EE that you take issue with, then ask Sam and the team to review that boss, not simply get rid of a beneficial change to sun pots. All this sounds like is you find one boss un-killable without being able to spam sunpots, if that's the case, the boss itself would need looking at, not the sun pots. If the point of bosses was to spam suns through them, why bother with incremental pots at all.

As for hell mobs, they do roam like most other mobs, only orbs are stationary when not agro'd and the route down to KR is never empty because of luring. We also agree mages are a good thing in hell and hopefully will be returned if/when the team have a way to stop them being abused too much, from Forsaken's perspective Mages in hell were always a good thing, as they make it much harder for small groups to run through straight to the bosses, and Forsaken generally hunt in large groups, so we like to clear through places.

As for Fox Boss, im not certain what changes you mean, but the fact Team and TKO love to suggest Forsaken only kill Fox boss got very old and very inaccurate many months ago. I don't think iv even been to kill fox since before Christmas.

If you read my posts fully, instead of just picking out the bits you want to read. I said it would be nice for all classes to be able to attack bosses. This is EE, EM, DK etc. For DK, you can't, as melee, spank it and pot through anything using the sunpots as they are. You smash through them without this delay, and you soon use up a lot of suns, meaning that you wouldn't survive the full kill like this anyway, no matter how quick you used them.

Also, go back to my PVP perspective. A wizard who is able to absorb 66% of everyones damage with magic shield up, being able to "tank" people FF'ing next to them. FF dealing 250-400 damage per cast. This can be spammed quicker than a sunpot. Meaning that in a "tanking match" a wizard would outpot anything else. With autopot set high, and using the sunpot once per second, it makes it incredibly easy as a wiz fighting.

Hell mobs do not roam around, so once you lure them out of the main path to all of the dead ends / corners, its an easy run. I could show you a short video of us running to Gate Keeper on a 40 warrior with no sunpots if you like? After all... the mobs were all lured away for an easy run.

As I mentioned about FoxBoss, it should have been how it was on euro (part of which got changed). Non RT on 1st. No mounts on 2nd. And have the boss actually hurt. On here it doesn't nuke on 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4 HP. It used to be a challenge to kill. Now it's easy.

 

[GimmeAKitKat]

If you read my posts fully, instead of just picking out the bits you want to read. I said it would be nice for all classes to be able to attack bosses. This is EE, EM, DK etc. For DK, you can't, as melee, spank it and pot through anything using the sunpots as they are. You smash through them without this delay, and you soon use up a lot of suns, meaning that you wouldn't survive the full kill like this anyway, no matter how quick you used them.

Also, go back to my PVP perspective. A wizard who is able to absorb 66% of everyones damage with magic shield up, being able to "tank" people FF'ing next to them. FF dealing 250-400 damage per cast. This can be spammed quicker than a sunpot. Meaning that in a "tanking match" a wizard would outpot anything else. With autopot set high, and using the sunpot once per second, it makes it incredibly easy as a wiz fighting.

Hell mobs do not roam around, so once you lure them out of the main path to all of the dead ends / corners, its an easy run. I could show you a short video of us running to Gate Keeper on a 40 warrior with no sunpots if you like? After all... the mobs were all lured away for an easy run.

As I mentioned about FoxBoss, it should have been how it was on euro (part of which got changed). Non RT on 1st. No mounts on 2nd. And have the boss actually hurt. On here it doesn't nuke on 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4 HP. It used to be a challenge to kill. Now it's easy.

Ahh, im not too fussed about some bosses being bias towards certain groups or classes, but again I would think asking for a revision of the bosses was a better solution than just making suns spamable. Iv not seen this much attention given to EM when melee classes are used for pot carriers, and Hell balances the class bias overall.

PvP wise I just personally find the sunpot change better for the 3 classes I mainly play, war, tao, wiz, and my wiz doesn't have ff/blizz/met.

Hell mobs do roam as much as most mobs, and can confirm that Forsaken never lure into corners, we simply clear. Yes running to KR without mages is probably easier than it should be, specially for certain classes, but hopefully mages will be back eventually.

As for those points on fox, only thing I would change currently is maybe the rt's on 1st, as it makes supposedly tamable pets unreachable for low lvl wizzies. But that could be fixed by sticking the low lvl frogs outside the cave or give them a higher spawn area near the door.

 

[Silencer]

Ahh, im not too fussed about some bosses being bias towards certain groups or classes, but again I would think asking for a revision of the bosses was a better solution than just making suns spamable. Iv not seen this much attention given to EM when melee classes are used for pot carriers, and Hell balances the class bias overall.

PvP wise I just personally find the sunpot change better for the 3 classes I mainly play, war, tao, wiz, and my wiz doesn't have ff/blizz/met.

Hell mobs do roam as much as most mobs, and can confirm that Forsaken never lure into corners, we simply clear. Yes running to KR without mages is probably easier than it should be, specially for certain classes, but hopefully mages will be back eventually.

As for those points on fox, only thing I would change currently is maybe the rt's on 1st, as it makes supposedly tamable pets unreachable for low lvl wizzies. But that could be fixed by sticking the low lvl frogs outside the cave or give them a higher spawn area near the door.

Yeah, take foxes away from outside door, spawn 5-10 frogs instead.

 

[ziiid]

If your concern is only the fact that people were using a scrip then change your delay to .25/.3 seconds, well within the range that people can spam without the aid of a marco. Fixed.

If you want to make content harder then introduce new harder content. Fixed

This change further imbalances classes and also removes some of the fun of pvp. You have very high damage pvp at the moment and this change removes some counter play from pvp, sure people die but the fights aren't as fun, organized and long.

I can't fathom a good reason for this change, "it more fun because its more challenging" why would making all the content you have already done more challenging be fun? New content is always better. Since this change disproportionately effects different classes of course you will get people that love it as it makes them stonger, something that is often overlooked.

I would be interested if someone could come up with a really good reason why it just isn't changed to a .25/.3 sec delay.