A lot of the other threads have dissolved into meaningless drivel, would just like a response from devs on what they will do to make wizards playable? Sam mentioned he would look into it a few days ago and nothing since, it's all very well saying be patient, but I will re-roll if nothings going to be done, so I think at least an outline of what the plans are could be given now, if no final numbers?
What are devs doing to improve QOL for wizards?
- Thread starter Toddwhite
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its been a few days like you said, things cant happen over night, and sometimes not even over a week
:P be patient
besides you cant really say that when we haven't seen what a wiz is like with all skills
:P be patient
besides you cant really say that when we haven't seen what a wiz is like with all skills
I don't agree that he should be making another thread about since they have already said they will look into it, however it takes mere minutes and basic math to tweak damage on skills.
/Xele
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Unfortunately this will not happen over night... I have a long list of things to work on and although I do try to plan and prioritize, it can end up with some tasks being pushed back in higher priority ones come in.
That being send, I do want to have a look at the classes over the next couple of days... So, what do we think is the real issue is with wizards?
Please try and keep replies constructive and backed up with as much evidence as possible....
Sam
That being send, I do want to have a look at the classes over the next couple of days... So, what do we think is the real issue is with wizards?
Please try and keep replies constructive and backed up with as much evidence as possible....
Sam
Just make pets tame more often, save when you log off/dc and last until you or the pets die. I think a lot would be happy about that.
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I would like to improve the experience with pets... I used to love taming pets on euro (5 black mags was always my fav)... So this is something we would potentially look into...
Sam
I think the pets thing is a separate issue. What I mean by this is wizards should not be redundant without them. They currently are. The only spells I feel do the right damage on here are firewall and Thunderstorm. All other spells seem extremely lacklustre. I think they need a VERY small buff vs PVE, but a substantial buff in PK. Samuel, I would suggest you log onto a wizard in 33 kit, fully levelled skills, then somebody else on another class. Get your opponent to stand still, and hp pot. You will not be able to kill him. I would go as far to say, you may run out of mana before they will run out of hp (maybe slight exaggeration, but not a massive one.) Wizards are fine defense wise, they just do HP potable damage, and this is wrong. landing multiple consecutive attacks should make somebody TT or use sun potions. I would like to see pets exactly how they are, but with no untame time, they exist until you log or die, or they die. Like a taos do basically, except you have to tame them instead of summon them. But pets should not be mandatory for a wizard to contribute in pvp.
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So... And I am going to be honest and accept if people disagree... PvE (not including bosses)... I believe wizards are still the strongest class (this is backed up by the ranking statistics I feel)... There are more 40 + wizards than any other class, granted they are not the highest, but for some people, they were going to be the highest no matter what class they played...
I understand there is frustration in PvP at the moment... and I will like to address this any/all potential issues with this, but I do need specifics...
Sam
I understand there is frustration in PvP at the moment... and I will like to address this any/all potential issues with this, but I do need specifics...
Sam
QoL is a full on wizard balancing/making more fun thing.
I think they are just not fun anymore. People are watching archers do lots and lots more damage than wizards. Yes wizards are great for aoe but they can only aoe effectively at level 30+.
Archers are levelling far too fast because staticshoy can stun every mob it hits but TS can't stun the certain a mobs.
I think they are just not fun anymore. People are watching archers do lots and lots more damage than wizards. Yes wizards are great for aoe but they can only aoe effectively at level 30+.
Archers are levelling far too fast because staticshoy can stun every mob it hits but TS can't stun the certain a mobs.
Mass killing lots of mobs on a wizard is fine yes. I don't know what more you want in terms of specifics. Before the frostcrunch nerf, wiz were weak in PVP, now they are even worse. I kind of agree the slow rate was op, but the damage doesn't need to be so low. Tbolt, Frostcrunch, Lightning, Icestorm all need their damage upping. Whether its base damage, mc scaling, or both, I don't know. You are a gm with much better means to test these things. Those 4 spells, especially, frostcrunch, lightning and icestorm though, need their damage upping. The way I used to pk on a wiz without FF, was FC until slowed (but it did do damage, here it takes 4 hits to outweigh a medium hp pot) once FC was proc'd, use lightning to do more damage, or continue trying to get slow procs. Here, there is just no kill potential. All of a wizards spells need their damage upping in pvp, probably not FW though because that spell ruins pvp if it lasts too long or hurts too much.
Completely agree with everything Todd says so +1 to all that.
Seriously cba to play at all without pets...
Seriously cba to play at all without pets...
In all honesty, I think you should just put a big* damage buff on lightning, frostcrunch, and icestorm, i'm literally talking about doubling it. You know when taos and sins are calling wizards weak, they are seriously weak. T bolt could do with a tiny improvement, but this promotes wall killing which you have steered away from, so I think out of the 4 spells, this one is the least important to tweak (10% buff). Lightening / icestorm are further AOE spells, is what wizards whole concept is. Frostcrunch is the single target PVP skill wizards need to compete.
I would like to see this implemented fairly soon, if it is OP or whatever then you can just tune it, with no work being done towards it, we are not getting any closer to balance. That's how I see it anyway.
* By this, I don't have access to the maths being used, so it's just an arbitrary amount. I don't know whether it is best to improve base damage, or scaling MC damage, I don't have the required information to make that decision. I suspect a bit of both, but that's a lot of speculation. I do however know how the magic db works, and it takes very little time to tweak it, and it will provide a lot of welcome relief for all the wizards in game!
I would like to see this implemented fairly soon, if it is OP or whatever then you can just tune it, with no work being done towards it, we are not getting any closer to balance. That's how I see it anyway.
* By this, I don't have access to the maths being used, so it's just an arbitrary amount. I don't know whether it is best to improve base damage, or scaling MC damage, I don't have the required information to make that decision. I suspect a bit of both, but that's a lot of speculation. I do however know how the magic db works, and it takes very little time to tweak it, and it will provide a lot of welcome relief for all the wizards in game!
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Sure I have a better means to test these things, but in addition everything filters through me, so I need to balance my time, the more you can provide the more focus can be spent on correcting the issue(s) rather than figuring out where they are...
So I guess it would be good to understand where/which class you guys are feeling the most pain against... And I think the only way you can attempt to make a fair judgement is a pvp contest with no pots... A single wiz is never going to beat a warrior who is potting... They never have 1v1...
My opinions off the top of my head how I think pvp with a wizard should pan out (baring in mind no pots):
Wizard v Warrior: Wizard should win with enough time, chuck a cheeky, fbang/icestorm/firewall down to slow the warrior, and FC/FD, if the warrior is skilled enough he will be ShoulderDashing/BA'ing to try and catch you, not senselessly chasing the wiz in hope to get a lucky tdb (#warsgotlazy). 6/7 out of 10 for wizards if in a fair non potting pvp.
Wizard v Taoist: I see this as being an unlucky one for wizards... as a Tao with two pets, specially Deva equates to a tough time for a wizard, however, a good enough wizard can TU their pets, keep mirroring out to slow the tao... But to what end? a Tao will just heal up and start over... 9/10 for taoists.
Wizard v Sin: I see this is being relatively fair... and Sins giving wizards a bit more of a run for their money than warriors as 1 wizards wont be able to slow down a sin with swift feet and two sins can get lucky shadow steps to them... However the mechanics of the pvp is the same, run and lay down some mass spells, using a single type spell against a sin is going to land you on the floor (you won't have much time to miss). 5/10 for wizards...
Archer v Wizard: This is where I could potentially see a problem, however, archer has a lot less defense than a wizard with shield, but does make up for it in damage... I see an archer winning this one more often than a wizard maybe 8/10 for Archers....
This has ended up being the mad brain dump of a crazy scientist, sorry.
Sam
this seems very bias vs pvp, and feel this is just another attempted to get wizards a buff.
I agree some of the lower level wizzy skills could do with VERY small buffs,
But
I seem to do just fine in pvp.... spamm firewall and tbolt/firebang + lighting when I can, all while still kiting though my firewalls.....
+ if I have pets I always make them TT
have you tried using different tactics? as most class's only do "potable" damage if you are moving......
+1 to a big buff on lighting damage tho!!
I agree some of the lower level wizzy skills could do with VERY small buffs,
But
I seem to do just fine in pvp.... spamm firewall and tbolt/firebang + lighting when I can, all while still kiting though my firewalls.....
+ if I have pets I always make them TT
have you tried using different tactics? as most class's only do "potable" damage if you are moving......
+1 to a big buff on lighting damage tho!!
Ok, The way is see it is that wizards are so far behind the curve that it is 10/10 for other classes. I don't know how I can make it more clear, if somebody is stood still, clicking medium hp pots, a wizard cannot kill them. Now, obviously nobody ever stands still. So until you up the damage, it's not even something we can compare in terms of who would win. if the opponent has HP pots (everybody carries hp pots) the wizard CANNOT win.
The way is see balance working is, you just aim for the perfect balance, you're never going to do that just by looking at maths, you need to apply it, and see how it affects the game. Right now, the numbers are so far off, we can't even begin the fine tuning process. I don't want wizards FC to do more damage than an archer, I want it to an amount that's a bit less, but still has an impact. that's the idea, a wiz shouldn't beat an archer 1 vs 1. Right now, an archer just laughs and hp pots the damage without any concerns.
Pet's need to stay out of it in my opinion, you need to invest up to an hour to get those, and in pvp, taos can poison them, and they can be killed. this means you have lost an entire hour. It's a bit like comparing someone on a fortitude elixir on LOL vs someone without. You have invested in that short term perk, so it's not something you can compare linearly.
I really think doubling the damage of FC, lightning, and icestorm would be a great start. FC and Icestorm damage is SO low, doubling it might not be enough. 20 dmgx2 is only 40. Lightning will benefit the most from a double, and so it should, that spell has always HURT when hit by it. Once you double these spells damage, you can then begin to tune it. Right now, it's just nowhere near correct, maybe doubling it will be too much, maybe not enough, let's do it and see!?
TL : DR - You cannot begin to balance wizard vs *other class* if the wizard cannot do any damage to them, its 10/10 win for the other class. let's improve this.
The way is see balance working is, you just aim for the perfect balance, you're never going to do that just by looking at maths, you need to apply it, and see how it affects the game. Right now, the numbers are so far off, we can't even begin the fine tuning process. I don't want wizards FC to do more damage than an archer, I want it to an amount that's a bit less, but still has an impact. that's the idea, a wiz shouldn't beat an archer 1 vs 1. Right now, an archer just laughs and hp pots the damage without any concerns.
Pet's need to stay out of it in my opinion, you need to invest up to an hour to get those, and in pvp, taos can poison them, and they can be killed. this means you have lost an entire hour. It's a bit like comparing someone on a fortitude elixir on LOL vs someone without. You have invested in that short term perk, so it's not something you can compare linearly.
I really think doubling the damage of FC, lightning, and icestorm would be a great start. FC and Icestorm damage is SO low, doubling it might not be enough. 20 dmgx2 is only 40. Lightning will benefit the most from a double, and so it should, that spell has always HURT when hit by it. Once you double these spells damage, you can then begin to tune it. Right now, it's just nowhere near correct, maybe doubling it will be too much, maybe not enough, let's do it and see!?
TL : DR - You cannot begin to balance wizard vs *other class* if the wizard cannot do any damage to them, its 10/10 win for the other class. let's improve this.
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(Opinion)
Make Lightning, a spell that requires positioning, do serious damage. And although you may or may not believe (we'll remain indifferent on this) that it multiplied per hit, what about looking into making it do something like this?
Buffing their single target spells is a bad idea in general, and I feel Lightning requires more skill to hit, thus could do with being more damage.
So generally a wizz will Repulse>Lightning to get some damage in.
Remove the AI changes to all mobs except bosses so wiz have a more interesting way to level solo...
As above, make lightning, icestorm and Frostcrunch do more damage. Lightning is very hard to use well and therefore it should hurt a lot more than it currently does.
As above, make lightning, icestorm and Frostcrunch do more damage. Lightning is very hard to use well and therefore it should hurt a lot more than it currently does.
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I don't believe it is 10/10 for every class at all, I believe some people expect wizards to be able to PvP and win as fast as other classes, which is not the case...
Sure, everyone carries pots... But how can you measure a fair pvp contest with pots?
Sam
---------- Post Merged at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:55 PM ----------
I wasn't saying I disliked the idea of accumulative damage, I just didn't like the approach you took to try and get the point across (a lot of our spells are clarified against the phili source, which is official code and lightning is one of them).
Sam
they don't take much damage from firewall standing still either....
Add pets into the mix I bet u win every time.....
You say pets cannot be included, but wizards are the only ones able to tame pets... so when a high level wiz comes on the field with a crystal spider or something of the sorts its GG everytime.
Balancing class's via NO HP/MP pot duels like sam said is the best and fairest way.
fights can go on forever when people pot anyway, and it becomes more of a "who has the most pots in there bag" battle
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