What are devs doing to improve QOL for wizards?

[Toddwhite]

I agree with Kori, Lightning is that hard to land, high damage spell that wizards use to do damage. I'm only asking for FC and icestorm buffs because they are SO weak. They shouldn't do damage comparable to lightening.

Samuel, it's 10/10 for people of a similar skill level.

I do not agree that you balance the game without pots. Pots are used in every single fight, balance should include basic potions. Why would you not include potions, when potions are a crucial part of the part of the game you are trying to balance? Burst damage, and sustained damage are different aspects of the game, potions/heals are the 3rd part of this balance triangle

Samuel - Please double the damage of Frost crunch, ice storm, and lightning. This will make frost crunch and lightening low damage, but relevant skills. Lightening will then pack a punch. (obviously test it before just adding what I say to game). Once that's done, we can work on tweaking. I promise you, wizards are so weak, an equally skilled opponent would never win.



I share a tao and archer as well as my wizard, I'm not being bias, I have no complaints with the other 2 classes.

---------- Post Merged at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:04 PM ----------

they don't take much damage from firewall standing still either....

Add pets into the mix I bet u win every time.....
You say pets cannot be included, but wizards are the only ones able to tame pets... so when a high level wiz comes on the field with a crystal spider or something of the sorts its GG everytime.




Balancing class's via NO HP/MP pot duels like sam said is the best and fairest way.

fights can go on forever when people pot anyway, and it becomes more of a "who has the most pots in there bag" battle

Crystal spider shouldn't be tameable. Wizards would be too strong. CS is strong on this server, it would be a joke. Pet's shouldn't be too strong, if they are, they need nerfing. I don't think you understand, I don't want wizards TOO powerful, I enjoy a balanced game. Right now they are far below the others in pvp.

A tao should never lose a PVP without pots. pets, poison, run. heal. this whole no-pot thing is simply wrong

 

[Koriban]

I wasn't saying I disliked the idea of accumulative damage, I just didn't like the approach you took to try and get the point across (a lot of our spells are clarified against the phili source, which is official code and lightning is one of them).

Sam

Indeed, I apologise if I came across as rude, this was not my intention and I understand your spells are coded to the phili source. A lot of things changed during euro times, from beta to its end, so things can be different to how you or I remember them depending on when you played.

I personally believe with a significant lightning buff, you'd not see any more whines from wizzies and they'll be able to utilize their level advantage better with the previous combo of spells I mentioned.

 

[Jicaa]

Warriors have the most bag weight, a wizard doesn't stand a chance of killing them in a pot fight.

Wizard have the lowest bag weight(I think?), so ofcourse a wizard won't last as long in a fight.

Your points about pots being in every fight are invalid when you look at each classes bag weight. You can't expect to kill someone with 3x as many pots as you can carry.

And as others have said, wizard are the only class able to tame and have 5 pets, you should make more use of this, well aslong as they do something about untaming pets(that has always been something that put me off bothering to tame pets)

 

[grimlife]

Crystal spider shouldn't be tameable. Wizards would be too strong. CS is strong on this server, it would be a joke. Pet's shouldn't be too strong, if they are, they need nerfing. I don't think you understand, I don't want wizards TOO powerful, I enjoy a balanced game. Right now they are far below the others in pvp.

A tao should never lose a PVP without pots. pets, poison, run. heal. this whole no-pot thing is simply wrong

not directly picking a CS but any other army of pets.
Why Shouldn't pets be to strong? like you said youself you gotta put the time and effort into them to get them and level them up, should be worth the effort.

Wait till flamefield or other highend spells start dropping, its gonna be a completely different story then, wizards will start to kill everyone in pvp.

Wizzards don't really become good at pvp until the later levels, and they level up fastest of all class's so it makes sense in that respect.




+1 to buff to lighting and hellfire

 

[Toddwhite]

Up the damage of lightning frost crunch and ice storm. That's what needs to be done, I'm off out for the evening. Potion and pet arguments will just derail the thread so I won't comment further. If pets are op nerf them, make another thread about it though. Don't mean to sound short with anyone, just on a phone and don't want to derail thread.

 

[NewHope]

The issue for me is having to stand there and die after casting 1 spell.

 

[Clintus2]

Firewall reduce mob AI
be able to hide behind a wall again
firebang bit of an upward tweak as now the mobs have advanced AI quite often we have to toe to toe as the decent AoE dont come in until over 35, and being surrounded with your finger pretty much pumping hp pots makes a hunt last a lot less time, i dont get a lot of time to play so will take me ages to get to the levels required for advanced AoE
TBolt needs to hit at least half the damage as an Archers equivalent level spell as there is no refining in game we cannot up our MC much above straight forward kit.
make pets tame quicker, takes me an hour nearly to tame 5 pets sometimes and by the time i have lvld them to a point they are useful they start untaming so an increase in tame time would also help please.

 

[Dorf]

I think the mahoosive thing everyone is forgetting how many wizz have mc 50? How many even have 45? You consider most servers wizzes at lvl40+ have 70+ easy.. Everyone is is in shop ****, the highest warrior prob stuggles to get dc 70, one thing I would agree on is lightning, it does take skill, but with the larger screen it still only affects 5 squares yeah? If you had 40mc at lvl 3 lightning you should be doing 100 or so hp on a warrior.. Increasing time with pets = trouble, increasing spells wholesale = trouble, these guys when they get serious mc, like 80+ are going to be dishing out loads of pain, and taking it with shield.. you made shield drops loads more, how about f sword? We can all whinge, but currently you guys from lvl34 can still tame the equivalent of pb omas.. and you want them there when you log back in? !~not hard to walk through a dungeon when you have 5 lvl7 pets that absolutely cain everything.. and everyone.. what is to stop a wizz from getting 5 lvl7 frogs and sitting in a kr somewhere, mowing anyone who came in?

 

[Blizzard]

I don't think pets should be changed at all because wizards have always been fastest at lvling because of there many AoE skills but now people are wanting the pets to stay if you d/c etc is ridiculous because wizards will soon be lvling fastest as always and just using their pets to pvp.

Putting in the time and effort to get and level your pets has always been the downside to being a wizz, you should live with it as it's apart of the class. It's just like saying some of the assassin skills have been changed and it's not how they're intended to be but we have to deal with it because it's all about balance.

With regards to T bolt damage I think it's fine as when I've been hit it's taken about 40-65 dmg near enough which to a 32 sin is like 25% of our health so get hit with a fc which does about 30 and with chance to slow and then T bolt after you're talking about near enough 40% hp which is fair tbh.

 

[BrightSide]

Impossible to have all classes balanced in every stage of the game. Agree some improvements are needed but main focus should be on overpowered skills because those players have the unfair advantage PVP PVE

 

[grimlife]

everything should be left as is to be honest, lets, let the server age and let some high levels develop and see how things are when people do have all the skills and nice kits.

I personally cant wait till I get my clone, that's gonna be a good one

 

[The NightAngel]

I dont think that increasing the damage of any spells at this stage would be sensible as it will have a negitive effect later on.

What i suggest is that currently people have 25-30 max MC?
1 additional MC should give a noticable difference at lvl 3 skills..
If the base damage of these spells are increased now with such low MC then the MC scalling will have to be reduced because ar 35-40 mc those skills would be overpowered.. With its current set up experiment a little. Take 5MC off and see how much weaker it becomes. You find your answer.. Get more MC. Easier said than done of course but isnt that the idea?
The alternative is to up the damage now but build in a mx MC scaller aling with upgrade skills.
E.g your current tbolt does 30damage max with current mc higher max with more mc we change that to do 50 damage max regardless of top end MC. so that its viable for low-mid levels. After that you have to learn Advanced TBolt that will then scale with mc for top end game as it should have.
Hope that made sense.

 

[Raider]

Essay inc, mainly for Sam.

So I have took the time to read through all the posts here and I just wanted to have my say on how I vision a wizard in Mir and what I think the class lacks.

First of all Sam you say you think pets should be a big part of playing a wizard, the answer to that is simply NO, they are so unreliable, take an age to tame and level and usually not worth the effort unless you are solo leveling in easy areas, they should be a luxury not a necessity.

You mention that because there are more level 40 wizards than any other class that they are fine in PvE, check the top 25 of each class, they are all pretty even, this means even though a wiz has got better leveling speed its not much more than that of the other classes. Your mob AI forces us to almost exclusively use thunder storm to level, we use to be able to firewall/lightning in PB and other areas but most of the mobs no longer walk into line with us making it not worth the effort or time to attempt this.

Bossing on a wizard has its uses (mainly e-shock or getting to the boss itself) but for the most part stacking sins/warriors is the best way to kill bosses, I laugh when I see all this walling jazz that Apex do for bossing with their massive groups. Really not got much problem with this at this point in the game since MC is lacking and bosses having plentiful amounts of AMC, I am sad you stopped us at the only boss we currently shine at, Red Moon Evil, the RT change here was horrid.

As for your class break down on what class should beat a wizard and how you picture the fights going, its not all as clear cut as that, you have to take into account that most fights happen within dungeons with lots of mobs and rarely would you ever get a 1v1, also at this point in the server not everyone has skills readily available to them.

Wizards as they currently are, are the perfect tankiness. If I get caught out I can die very easily to any class but if I play properly I can also be very tricky to kill. However the problem arises when arguably the squishiest class in game deals 0 damage. You say that a wizard shouldn't be able to kill people, I beg to disagree, If I am landing all my hits and outplaying the enemy I should be able to make them burn through their sun pots just as rapid as anyone else. A perfect example of this is Euro Mir, a wizard was extremely scary and could hold his ground vs both warriors and taoists, but I don't believe that they should go back to the state of just pressing FF with blue armour to win and almost solely relying on the skill.

Important - I posted this on bug report forums but you can not TU taoist pets, so mentioning a skilled wizard will TU them made me chuckle a bit.

As for sins I only played USA for a few months near the start of the game with no FF, I use to be able to take on Sins but they also use to have the potential to kill me as well.

Archers are untested territory and I can't really comment on how we should fare against them at end game, but I see them being extremely squishy. If I can land my shots on them which are not ones I can hit from across the screen like FC/T bolt/FD then they should be like paper to me or seriously using sun pots, just like I would be using sun pots vs them. I also believe Archers should be based around mega amounts of agility to help survive the melee train that plagues your server.

The biggest problem with buffing wizards is when you start getting groups of FF wizards with good kit just annihilating anyone they hit at the same time, OKS is a prime example from Euro Mir. Although I do not know with your current drop rates how long it will take to reach that stage. Up till now wizards have had an extremely hard time and had to rough the storm while the other classes in shop kit rock the show.

The question then is what should be done? Should wizards just ride it out and wait for the end game? Do you want wizards to rely on only FF? Why has a wizard become so anti-fun on this server?

I probably have the best wiz kit on the server at this current time and even with MC 40 there is one thing the wizard class lacks and that is DAMAGE. Wizards have always been high risk high reward with low hp even with the FF scaling on euro for lots of damage you had to get up close and personal to use it (apart from when it got stupid with blue armour at the end). I should be able to pack a punch and fight back, not just try get a lucky Frost Crunch purple and watch my team jump on that person. I don't want to wait months to endgame to then spam FF all day, that is no fun. I want to outplay my opponents with a range of skills and feel like a threat in fights.

Koriban proudly stole one of my points from the other thread regarding lightning, I think the damage on this skill should be upped, its a situational skill and not impossible to avoid unlike Frost Crunch or T bolt. However I think Frost crunch should do more damage than it does now, especially since you destroyed the proc rate on it. Ice storm might be another skill you should focus on, I know this could be a tricky one since its AOE but maybe you could code something along the lines of making the center square deal significantly more damage so mindlessly spamming it into groups of people wouldn't be as effective if the damage was upped. Upping all the spells in one go would not be a wise move, fine tuning over time is the best way to gauge a classes strength and avoid power creeps.

I really don't want to sound or come off as a massive ego either but I am pretty well known for playing a wizard among the community and I hope that my opinion will taken into account as I feel I have great knowledge of the class and what its strengths and weaknesses are. Cheers for taking the time to open up a discussion about the class.

/Xele

 

[Creator]

Wiz vs War

-Pets Lion Roar
​

Wiz vs Tao

-Pets Hiding, Trap Hexagon, Hallucination
​

Wiz vs Sin

-Pets Moonlight, Trap
​

Wiz vs Archer

-Pets ???
​

As you can see all the "bla bla wiz with pets" its not true at all.

 

[xXxX]

Wiz vs War

-Pets Lion Roar
​

Wiz vs Tao

-Pets Hiding, Trap Hexagon, Hallucination
​

Wiz vs Sin

-Pets Moonlight, Trap
​

Wiz vs Archer

-Pets ???
​

As you can see all the "bla bla wiz with pets" its not true at all.

taos cant traphex or hallu pets lol and same with sins,they cant trap pets.

 

[Scampi]

Wizards eh... where to start?

Tankiness - overall feels right atm.
- Shield cast is a bit weird but certainly playable. Can die fast in a bad situation - which is correct.
- HP runes I can see playing a ridiculous role in the server. Will easily be able to match blu dark arm effect with a shoe string budget it seems and that imo is too much, for other classes too.. It may be essential when warriors / sins get decent dc kit and smash us even harder though so watching this space..

Spells
- FC. It either needs to proc a lot or do comparable damage to bolt on living mobs / players. Would say this needs a significant 15% ish damage boost before any mc multipliers at least, and perhaps a 10% proc chance. I'm not sure what the current vision for FC is when a wiz has most/all spells to mid/late 40s? Keep damage low ish, proc a lot more, but not silly 7 seconds - more like 3-4 is my opinion.
- Bolt. Come on this needs like a 20%+ base damage increase vs undead mobs imo. High boss amc is fine, but it's quite funny watching a 40 wiz bolt zuma archers compared to 32+ sin/war/arch tearing one apart for example. Doesn't need to be any stronger vs players imo - albeit pretty weak.
-Light. Does decent dmg but should probably do a 10%-15% chunk more dmg vs undead, and be the main wiz punch in pvp until potentially ff. Hitting 60 ish dmg (mc7-35 roughly) is not quite good enough to beat auto pot (an afk player), and think this should be hitting as high as 80-90 against players with the current low mc kits to actually have some comparable damage output.
- Ice. Xeles, mid square hits more sounds good to me. Currently looks awful and don't give a damn about getting it. Would suggest small dmg increase to pvp but a good 20%+ more dmg to living mobs or something to make it worthwhile. After all, it's rare and lvl 35..
- TU. Please - let this work vs taos pets?? Also you were a bit tight with 1200 for lvl1? Dull as fk... (stfu warriors and get dashing shell nippers)

MC
Well the whole spell thing could be disregarded here.. Wiz without a very nice mc kit probably shouldn't hurt anyone much.. Problem is the definition of a high mc kit.. It will be a very frustrating and long time getting mc 70+, one that most will not see through to the end. Other classes were having all the pking fun within the first few days of the server opening - wiz are still frustrated.
Now by the time wiz are hitting mc 70+, at the current rate I expect anyone that fancies it to have a fully hp runed out kit weeks/months in advance - thus negating the reward of achieving the mc kit anyway.
I don't think wiz/mc gear should drop more than dc and kinda like this item grind - so again think it should be base damage of the spells buffed rather than mc multipliers.

Pets. C'mon these were a bit of fun, but not an essential part to playing wiz. Sure 5 black mags helped in bc, but they would soon die if you went to a proper lvling area. They might have been good within 6 months of euro opening (although still got smashed in zt), but think more red frogs have been tamed here than ever were on euro. I think eshock should be around 1/12 chance of success if they are supposed to be an important part of being a wiz, and lvl a touch faster - I cant see why you would want to encourage the wizards of your server to spend hours daily/weekly performing relatively un enjoyable monotonous tasks?

It's worth looking at euro;
- One of the most driving things I remember from euro was getting my first 22 arm. You could have a similar drive if there were actually lvl 40 armours (quest rewards?) for those that have put the time in to get lvl 40. **** all this spend ages crafting tiny extra stats and a skin - allow players to show off their lvl with their armour, and also to get a fair snapshot of peoples levels by inspecting them. You could look at my wiz (lvl 40) and not be sure if I'm 33 or 40. The same goes for other classes ofc. Anyway - around these early days wizards would bolt warriors in kit similar to this server and do fk all dmg, NickPhil had flame sword but otherwise warriors pinched you in return. This server is a bit like that for wiz which I think is what you are going for (old school feeling), but have slapped archers and sins in to that setup with very little grace - with a completely different tier of damage output. The same goes for tdb. Wiz can't compete, but on euro I had could log on my 3 year old lvl 44 warrior and smash bosses/ppl as necessary. I think mir was made with the '3 heroes' in mind, and was always going to be near impossible to find balance through all lvl ranges in pvp for 5 classes - after all many have tried and failed with 3.

I can see you are doing a pretty good job regardless of my input perhaps looking a bit of a complaint, but things are getting a bit tiresome in pvp. Investigate within a few days sounds realistic too. Within a few weeks sounds intolerable.

 

[Creator]

taos cant traphex or hallu pets lol and same with sins,they cant trap pets.

eh, even so they still can ignore pets ... lol

 

[LionMir]

Before changing anything just wait till wiz get decent kits/spells on old ace we took sw with 4 people due to having 2 FF wizzes having rediculas kits

 

[Insinia123]

I would like to improve the experience with pets... I used to love taming pets on euro (5 black mags was always my fav)... So this is something we would potentially look into...

Sam

wizz pets I have no problem with them keeping them untill they die or log but can you make so when they get to the stage they can tame bosses like frost tiger could that still have a time limit?

 

[Toddwhite]

I don't mean to sound arrogant but I really think a lot of what being said here is just garbage. You cannot multi-cast spells at the same time. If we are up lightning damage, FF damage is irrelevant to it really. You can't cast both at the same time. IF ff does loads of damage, we wont use lightning, but until then, give us lightning? No pvp until ff is ridiculous! I would rather have an array of skills to cast and attack my enemy than hold down ff with my other kills redundant. Not to mention no FF have dropped yet? This debate isn't about pets or FF. IT's about Wizards doing no damage. You need to add BASE damage to spells, and a small mc scaling improvement. this wont affect the game later when wizards have 70mc. Every single person that has actually pvp'd on a wizard knows they need their damage upping. They don't need their health or anything else upping, just their damage, I don't know what more I can say. Up FC / lightning / Icestorm damage, and then look at t bolt. Try killing a zuma mob with t bolt, then do it on a sin or archer. I know it shouldn't be AS fast, but the difference is a joke. What xele said was pretty spot on, I would just up 3 spells in 1 hit though, they are SO weak, they wont become OP unless u do something silly.