Whats Happening

[Rollcage]

atm wiz are **** (not strong damage wise) without FF, hbut it shouldnt be this way, thats why u see all these "Wiz moan" threads

dont get me wrong, i would have prefered we didnt need them in the first place but i apreciate the couple buffs we received, but we still fall so short in many other areas.
the fact is that FF isnt all there is to a wiz, but this server it playing it out like thats the case, but it never was on euro or on any of the other servers i played.

 

[Nizzles]

Wizz Ranged Aoe - ice storm. totally ****. does like 15-50 dmg. its worse than static shot 10 fold and has a much heavier mana cost. the likelyness of hitting more than 3 mobs with it is low. static guarantees a 5 hit bounce and when there are less than 5 mobs it even bounces between the 2 mobs hitting much higher than icestorm and giving a stun/poison effect.

so as for wizzies being mass killing gods and archers single target gods. thats ****ed us again..

was just in pb a minute ago. the amount of ranged mobs to melee mobs is ridiculous. their ai is stupid and they just move all over the place. there is no way to aoe kill them. you lay a firewall and they walk around it. and when they walk into it it ticks for 11 dmg sometimes... not worth casting.


archer guildie tested my firewall last night was walking round for ages in my firewall and we just both said yeah... thats not even worth casting.

so thats 2 aoe spells which are utter crap so far.

TS still needs a damage boost. you have a high risk using it as you have to run into a massive group of mobs to use it. and there are living mobs in that lure. in full mc kit unless i had luck 7 it seems useless. still mainly hits around 30-50. (another option would be to make the range of it larger)

Boars still dont stun in Bdd

also when u have killed most of the lure. killing 4 mobs with TS isnt worth the MP cost ...and your other spells all dont hurt to kill a single target. should be able to finish off with icestorm but the damage is utterly ****.

people saying you need to gear a wiz up with +MC items for them to be good. .. well why should we? when every other class is perfectly viable in the lvl 30 weapon and power/titan/violet Tier of items.

if we're an AOE class, then boost our AOE coz its still utterly shocking. boost my icestorm so i can use it, boost my TS (its only exclusive to undead, so i dont the the big deal) boost firewall. it should tick faster. you sometimes used to flinch twice when walking into firewall. it barely slows anyone down and they have to be retarded to walk into it.... and for bosses its completely shite.

 

[Rollcage]

the issue with firewall as i see it is that the damage has been reduced, not by a great deal but still, and more than that it doesnt tick right, you can see this easily vs players, it ticks every other step inside it instead of every stepso in a sense the damage has been reduced by about 75%

this spell, while ppl who play other classes may not know, was one of the wizards MAIN spells for damage

1st is flame field
2nd was tied with frostcrunch and firewall (while FC did big damage it was a single hit, whereas firewall did good damage constantly while it was up)
3rd was vamp ( it did alot of damage but it absolutely cained mp to bash it)

 

[Turrican]

the issue with firewall as i see it is that the damage has been reduced, not by a great deal but still, and more than that it doesnt tick right, you can see this easily vs players, it ticks every other step inside it instead of every stepso in a sense the damage has been reduced by about 75%

this spell, while ppl who play other classes may not know, was one of the wizards MAIN spells for damage

1st is flame field
2nd was tied with frostcrunch and firewall (while FC did big damage it was a single hit, whereas firewall did good damage constantly while it was up)
3rd was vamp ( it did alot of damage but it absolutely cained mp to bash it)

Firewall is the same as it was on ace, and i recall nobody complaining about it then.

 

[Rollcage]

then you recall wrong, because i made serveral posts about it.
even spoke to gms about it when i caught them ingame, all i ever got was " we're looking into it".
then when i tested in beta for chron i was finally told that sam did this on purpose.
and ive mentioned everything uve fixed/buffed so far aswell, but again was summarily ignored, then 3 months down the line u decide to fix them...
i apreciate that somone (babyhack) is finally listening, but you have to understand, its way late and still so many things that need fixing.

 

[Turrican]

then you recall wrong, because i made serveral posts about it.

Just did a search and found no posts, please link these posts you made.

 

[Rollcage]

they were in ace2 forum, not in here, 2-3 were in the bug section and 1 or 2 were in the general section
on here i didnt bother making a post after sam told me he did it on purpose, even tho it made no sense for him to do it.

---------- Post Merged at 04:22 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:18 PM ----------

seems like the completely deleted the ace2 forum archive?

 

[TheMasterGee]

Wizz Ranged Aoe - ice storm. totally ****. does like 15-50 dmg. its worse than static shot 10 fold and has a much heavier mana cost. the likelyness of hitting more than 3 mobs with it is low. static guarantees a 5 hit bounce and when there are less than 5 mobs it even bounces between the 2 mobs hitting much higher than icestorm and giving a stun/poison effect.

so as for wizzies being mass killing gods and archers single target gods. thats ****ed us again..

was just in pb a minute ago. the amount of ranged mobs to melee mobs is ridiculous. their ai is stupid and they just move all over the place. there is no way to aoe kill them. you lay a firewall and they walk around it. and when they walk into it it ticks for 11 dmg sometimes... not worth casting.


archer guildie tested my firewall last night was walking round for ages in my firewall and we just both said yeah... thats not even worth casting.

so thats 2 aoe spells which are utter crap so far.

TS still needs a damage boost. you have a high risk using it as you have to run into a massive group of mobs to use it. and there are living mobs in that lure. in full mc kit unless i had luck 7 it seems useless. still mainly hits around 30-50. (another option would be to make the range of it larger)

Boars still dont stun in Bdd

also when u have killed most of the lure. killing 4 mobs with TS isnt worth the MP cost ...and your other spells all dont hurt to kill a single target. should be able to finish off with icestorm but the damage is utterly ****.

people saying you need to gear a wiz up with +MC items for them to be good. .. well why should we? when every other class is perfectly viable in the lvl 30 weapon and power/titan/violet Tier of items.

if we're an AOE class, then boost our AOE coz its still utterly shocking. boost my icestorm so i can use it, boost my TS (its only exclusive to undead, so i dont the the big deal) boost firewall. it should tick faster. you sometimes used to flinch twice when walking into firewall. it barely slows anyone down and they have to be retarded to walk into it.... and for bosses its completely shite.

Need to know what MC and mobs are getting 15-50 dmg. The fact on it's own means very little. I don't remember Wizzes being AoE chars. It could of course have gone that way since the evolution of various private servers, which pretty much negates any meaningful development and cross-class balance. Wizzes used to use their AoE to attract mobs, and not flatten them with the spell - the other players or their pets would do the clearing up. TBolt has always been their choice weapon of single mob damage.

A Wiz attracting the attention of masses of mobs has always been a bad idea for the wiz - they die. (well most do, I've always preferred defensive stats over mc)

Private servers do have alot to answer for. The majority you find that spells have evolved from FireWall seemingly lasting an absolute age (never used to be the case, even with high mc it never used to last as long as it's evolved into), MShield too, and the likes of TStorm appear to have adopted less mp use and more damage - and damages live mobs more then ever. I figure this is because with most servers you could have a village map and BDD and the players would be happy.

However TStorm is supposed to stun everything, even with 1 damage. Maybe that's changed too. Then again, Luck used to be for DC only way back when. TStorm consumed so much MP, and did so little damage, that it wasn't worth entertaining unless there were a few of you doing it, and at the end of a hunt where you had bags of MP pots left. Euro tampered with mp use mind, made it use alot less.

I dunno, it's a problem you get deeper and deeper into when you change stats for any skills for one class, you're always playing catch up trying to equalize them.

 

[Rollcage]

well towards the end of euro, u could have possibly said wiz were aoe powerhouses, but that was due to only 1 spell, and that was FF, meteor never got introduced in euro before it turned to dust

but even before FF luring lots of mobs did not mean death, we had a bunch of spells to deal with large numbers of mobs firewall/lightning/icestorm, and any wiz worth his salt used these spells frequently.
in the single target arena we had major power aswell, with FC being the go to spell, thunderbolt has only really ever been good vs undead mobs, in a pvp or vs living mobs it was less than decent
FD was suposed to be the living mob version of bolt, but in truth, it only ever did slightly more damage, so again, it came down to FC/FF/FW/Lightning

As for Tstorm, it was well weorth doing, this was how i lvled from about 41-43 or so, till i got FF, was decent in bdd back when they had manageble HP, then FF came in and changed the score, while it did ALOT more damage, you couldnt stun mobs with 2ffers the way u could with 2 tsers, ud need at least 3, or u just braved the pain (which is what i did )

---------- Post Merged at 04:45 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:41 PM ----------

I dunno, it's a problem you get deeper and deeper into when you change stats for any skills for one class, you're always playing catch up trying to equalize them.

yes, this is the absoute truth, and ppl are gonna see the effects of changing deva/shinsu even more, further down the line when other skills are introduced to the mix, but that doesnt belong on this thread... so, sorry.

 

[davey_boyy]

Need to know what MC and mobs are getting 15-50 dmg. The fact on it's own means very little. I don't remember Wizzes being AoE chars. It could of course have gone that way since the evolution of various private servers, which pretty much negates any meaningful development and cross-class balance. Wizzes used to use their AoE to attract mobs, and not flatten them with the spell - the other players or their pets would do the clearing up. TBolt has always been their choice weapon of single mob damage.

A Wiz attracting the attention of masses of mobs has always been a bad idea for the wiz - they die. (well most do, I've always preferred defensive stats over mc)

HAHAHAHAHA what the hell nonsense is this?? wiz is not an AOE class wtf? it was always a bad idea for wiz to attract a lot of mobs lol wat? they need to attract as many mobs as possible huge lures and then kill them all with their powerful AOE spells this is how wiz played on euro and all official servers.. nothing to do with private servers, I think you must be trolling? it was never other players or wiz pets that did the killing/damage it was all the wizzys carrying groups with TS/FF mass killing everything way the class is supposed to play.

 

[TheMasterGee]

HAHAHAHAHA what the hell nonsense is this?? wiz is not an AOE class wtf? it was always a bad idea for wiz to attract a lot of mobs lol wat? they need to attract as many mobs as possible huge lures and then kill them all with their powerful AOE spells this is how wiz played on euro and all official servers.. nothing to do with private servers, I think you must be trolling? it was never other players or wiz pets that did the killing/damage it was all the wizzys carrying groups with TS/FF mass killing everything way the class is supposed to play.

Err, no.

well towards the end of euro, u could have possibly said wiz were aoe powerhouses......

That's the thing, as soon as Euro knew their providers weren't interested, they let alot of things change. Which included TStorm from a massive mp eater, to something worth using with a partner.

Before all the unofficial changes, apart from hiding behind a wall and firewalling (which didn't last as long as it does now), flamefield ? When I stopped playing euro, 2 people? had it and my wiz was 42.

(and 3 hits from anything definitely brought your shield down quick)

Working off the back of one set of unofficial changes, to another bunch, to another, makes quite a mess.

TU being reliable and cost effective enough to level with ? wtf is that all about ?

Remember, at the latter year/days of euro mir, players were going from lvl1-40 within a week, some even days. (excusing the shared chars) Doesn't that remind you of a private server ?

 

[Rollcage]

That's the thing, as soon as Euro knew their providers weren't interested, they let alot of things change. Which included TStorm from a massive mp eater, to something worth using with a partner.

Before all the unofficial changes, apart from hiding behind a wall and firewalling (which didn't last as long as it does now), flamefield ? When I stopped playing euro, 2 people? had it and my wiz was 42.

(and 3 hits from anything definitely brought your shield down quick)

Working off the back of one set of unofficial changes, to another bunch, to another, makes quite a mess.

TU being reliable and cost effective enough to level with ? wtf is that all about ?

Remember, at the latter year/days of euro mir, players were going from lvl1-40 within a week, some even days. (excusing the shared chars) Doesn't that remind you of a private server ?

i dont recall there being any change in the mp usage of TS in euro, but i could easily be wrong about that, all i know is i used it a alot before ff and i was never too bothered about how much mp it took.

firewall used to last quite long depending on ur mc, and it did SO much more damage, and it didnt take long for more than 2 to have FF, i think 2 months from the skill being introduced 5-7 ppl had it

shield is again, also mc dependant, so im not sure what mc u had, but my shield absolutely did not go down after 3 hits even when i had about 50 mc that wasnt the case, although i THINK shield reaced a little differently, i cant say for certain but it seems as though the bigger the hit u took on ur shield the more of an effect it had on its timer kind of thing, again im not certain but it sure seemed that way.

as for tu, yeah i can admit tu was never worth using for lvling on euro, smashed mp and didnt work often enough to make it worth it, was only useful for things like soloing zt really.
only time i saw it become useful for lvling was private servers and then USA, but i cant say i dont like it, i always thought the spell should have been more sucessful, but i can see why they made it fail alot, as it has the potential, to be so very OP, but again, i quite like TU (the gfx are dry and outdated tho)

not sure what ppl lvling to 40 in a week has to do with anything though? and ppl could only do that at the end with the help of other players who were already high, or with the aid of ebay, also because the exp required to reach 40 hadnt changed but exp overall had been increased- new mobs with more exp were introduced n so on, they had the benefit of a server already in full swing.

 

[TheMasterGee]

When we first had TS, it was taking about a quarter of your mp tank originally. I'm looking back to when not everyone had it.

Firewall timing was/is/was min mc based and level of the skill, think TD can point out if I'm confusing it with another spell. It was massaged a fair bit, until servers began to stop it's use in areas cos, like on here, you set one off and it's up for what seems like minutes. You fill a room with it and other classes get pizzed off.

Way shield works(ed) was that untouched it would last dependent on your mc and level of the skill. Being hit took a chunk of that time away, on euro's server files atleast. Off to test this again in a mo.

People getting to 40 within a week, in comparison to when you absolutely couldn't previously, merely outlines the differences that were made.

Think you'll find most of our discrepancies will come about with me stopping when 2 people had ff (one of them bought it for cash iirc), and if you can remember 5-7, there's the timezone. Believe only EM was dropping it at my time.

 

[The NightAngel]

I remember tstorm using 1/4 - 1/3 of my mp pool early days on euro pre 1.4.

 

[TheMasterGee]

You'll remember the really squirly looking SpittingSpiders we used to have too. (think I've found that graphic)

 

[davey_boyy]

Err, no.

That's the thing, as soon as Euro knew their providers weren't interested, they let alot of things change. Which included TStorm from a massive mp eater, to something worth using with a partner.

Before all the unofficial changes, apart from hiding behind a wall and firewalling (which didn't last as long as it does now), flamefield ? When I stopped playing euro, 2 people? had it and my wiz was 42.

(and 3 hits from anything definitely brought your shield down quick)

Working off the back of one set of unofficial changes, to another bunch, to another, makes quite a mess.

TU being reliable and cost effective enough to level with ? wtf is that all about ?

Remember, at the latter year/days of euro mir, players were going from lvl1-40 within a week, some even days. (excusing the shared chars) Doesn't that remind you of a private server ?

Errrr yes? mastergee u are clueless about wizzys they were ALLWAYS able to AOE large lures of mobs on Euro Thunderstorm was allways effective yes it drained a lot more mana pots didn't regen as fast as they do on here at end of a lure my mp bar was mostly empty, but all wizzys tsing in bdd on euro effectively aoeing mobs its what the wiz class is all about. Also PI,BDD etc were in Euro for half the life the server 4 years... so ppl lvled using that exp for a very long while.

Also u say about only cos wizzys got FF later at the end of euro.. this is nonsense euro ended March 2009 I have seen screenshots 2005 multiple wizzys with FF and OKS and bdd was in game.. ppl seem to think that bdd,oks and things like flame field were only in at the end of euro they were not they were a huge part of the game for half the time the server lived for...

 

[TheMasterGee]

Nevermind davey_boyy.

 

[Follower]

players were going from lvl1-40 within a week, some even days. (excusing the shared chars) Doesn't that remind you of a private server ?

NikoN did it in 5days if memory serves me correct.