Where is it all going wrong?

[LightBringer]

You all bang on about gameshops and cash cow servers like its new and "this is the end" but its been like this since the beginning.
was lots of early servers that sold items, they perhaps just did it more secretly instead of in the form of a public gameshop.
Somewhere along the road the gameshop became "accepted" by the community altho that didnt stop backdoor deals.

Anyway, players aint the only problem on this forum, its the server owners as well being toxic towards others. Quick to call others names and stuff yet probably 10x worse themselves. Like a certain server owner that attacked me recently and then I read some gigantic thread about them playing the game and being corrupt (oh how I'm not surprised at all.)

I just enjoy the discussion on these subjects, seeing different points of view from different GMs.
GameShops have always existed, money grabbers too, I don't agree with it, but as you've said it isn't a new trend.

It does suck when people go for other GMs throats, for whatever reason.
It's why it's so hard to find a team you can collab with on here

 

[MasterD]

All these posts the past few weeks have just shown the lack of respect and trust between GMs and players. This thread is no different.

That's the main problem. The rest is the fallout of that.

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

 

[Omnibus]

All these posts the past few weeks have just shown the lack of respect and trust between GMs and players. This thread is no different.

That's the main problem. The rest is the fallout of that.

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

This is what closed down Euro Mir back in 2009.

No respect / trust between GMs and players.

Nothing changed since. Still the same drama.

 

[SmavidDavid]

This is what closed down Euro Mir back in 2009.

No respect / trust between GMs and players.

Nothing changed since. Still the same drama.

I think Euro Mirs closure was completely unrelated to the player base and GMs and more likely financial interests and lack of interest in the western market.

 

[Lose]

Got nothing against Gameshops these days.
Things have evolved and it's no longer sustainable to host on a machine at home as this brings many problems - Plus back in the day a server would have maybe max 50 UC? If that.
We now have to be prepared for the first days and weeks mass influx. Therefore more power, bandwidth etc is required to sustain good performance. So a dedi server required for most.

That brings cost, per month and something the owners have to be prepared to pay out of their own pocket. It's only right they have the opportunity to get something back for that.
It also keeps the team more interested in the server if they are at least making something out of it or at least covering the costs.

We as a community also benefit from the above as some server devs will release some features they have implemented or are willing to help others add similar features, thus boosting our base set of files helping the next guy come along and release a server etc etc - Knock on effect.

My problem is some of the prices on items these days.
£5 for an EXP Pot that lasts no longer than a day
£10 a week for some "Premium features" which include faster lvling in "Premium caves"
£10 pick up pet, which as daft as it sounds are very handy and give some advantage
£££ "gaming" features to get better items, or loot boxes that *can* contain something.

These are not example of current prices, but you get the gist.


LOMCN are not here to dictate what server can or cannot sell, or how much they can sell something for. We're also not here to tell players how much things should cost or how much they can spend.
It's the community that should boycott said servers, that's the only way to counter it.

They are cheap examples compared to some servers, I think that's the key thing to take from all this, just being fair and reasonable.

An example from one recent server of 1 item.
- £2.40 for 1 hour 100% bonus XP
- £57.60 for 24 hours
or.. £1728.00 for 30 days of 100% EXP depending on how you look at it?

Obviously these are optional, but it's still available to the biggest wallet.. and lets face it, some will pay it and HAVE paid it. I know players who were running of them EXP pots at that rate for weeks, just so they could remain at the top and spent hundreds easily.

So yeah it may look excessive, but people pay it and it's wrong that they can or it's accepted as okay from either side. You have the argument from some GMs that say it's just business and you just don't pay it if you don't like it.

But it's the players experience that is affected the most. Most just want to play the game with their mates or with an active community, they are strung along with whichever server is populated at the time. They are affected by the £ generating decisions in many ways, yes they can just 'not pay for it' but by not doing so their experience is massively affected and overall leaves a negative effect on the game.

Thing's just need to be fair and reasonable, that's it.

 

[Tai]

They are cheap examples compared to some servers, I think that's the key thing to take from all this, just being fair and reasonable.

An example from one recent server of 1 item.
- £2.40 for 1 hour 100% bonus XP
- £57.60 for 24 hours
or.. £1728.00 for 30 days of 100% EXP depending on how you look at it?

You could be a politician with those numbers. No one is playing 24 hours a day; even if you played 8 hours a day every day for a month that total spend would be £576 not £1728 (and that's assuming you're just levelling for those 8 hours as well)


I think I do agree with your point though, I think most games cap how many GS items you can buy, no? e.g. Maximum 2 x exp pots per day per account

 

[Belle]

But then the question is….”what is fair and reasonable?”

 

[Lose]

You could be a politician with those numbers. No one is playing 24 hours a day; even if you played 8 hours a day every day for a month that total spend would be £576 not £1728 (and that's assuming you're just levelling for those 8 hours as well)


I think I do agree with your point though, I think most games cap how many GS items you can buy, no? e.g. Maximum 2 x exp pots per day per account

Yes.. people are playing and paying 24 hours a day with paid levellers on them. The fact you don't believe this, just goes to show how you don't understand how deep this problem actually is.

Just ask the likes of Savage/Joe, he is one of many who I know had levellers and 24 hour EXP pots running.

One person alone spent around £5000 on Apoc V2 and I personally know others who had spent £1-2k+ each.

 

[LightBringer]

But then the question is….”what is fair and reasonable?”

It is always the question and it's no single measurement, as everyone would depict it differently.

I've just always been baffled by a £3 per hour, per buff in a game shop (when multiple stat buffs sit there)
<£1 for a 24hour buff just seems fair
Do hourly buffs for an in game currency

As always it'll boil down to "players can just not buy stuff", but if that was just the easy go to, why did Diablo Immortal get **** all over...


Ultimately the GS is the last thing I even try to think about, as I don't really care what sits there, or if we are even doing one and looking at a sub based model (legit have no idea on this atm)

 

[Bon]

By fair I don't mean it's contents.

By fair I mean you get 'value' for your money.
Paying 3 quid for an hour buff is not 'fair'.

oh ye I agree.
I think MIR4 shop was a complete fkin rip off, that's an example of what shouldn't be allowed.
You could spend £200 and have NOTHING to show for it because of the RNG nature. summon 200 spirits and get a load of greens.. and ultimately combine them all in 1 green and be massively pissed off having wasted money.

What I hate is when the game forces you to do it because its so bloody good your a fool to not do it... but thats just 1 phycological tactic used by all game devs these days. Like I've said before, Games are a BUSINESS, and businesses are designed to make MONEY.

Yes.. people are playing and paying 24 hours a day with paid levellers on them. The fact you don't believe this, just goes to show how you don't understand how deep this problem actually is.

Just ask the likes of Savage/Joe, he is one of many who I know had levellers and 24 hour EXP pots running.

One person alone spent around £5000 on Apoc V2 and I personally know others who had spent £1-2k+ each.

But that person chose to spend that money. You have no idea what their financial state is.
£5k to them could be £50 to you. I seen people spend £200k+ on MIR4, and the guy was like its fine its just disposable income.

I don't get why you are so bothered about it... is it because you also spend a lot of money on Apoc and now live with regret? If so that's a lesson for you to take away.

I can't count how many games I've played where I've wasted money, just like I can't count how many times I've been out drunk and wasted money. As long as in the moment I had a good time and it was worth it that's all that matters. Sometimes I will wake up with some regret like that £100 cab back from London really wasn't worth it, but then I just won't do it again.

Stop trying to act like the good guy and that you speak on behalf of the whole community, as obviously a lot that don't agree with your mindset.
In mobile gaming its actually widely accepted to p2w.. in fact if you don't your shunned.. where as PC community its the opposite.. p2w are shunned and f2p are some sorta heroes.
Just got to accept the fact that generations change, communities change, the world changes.

 

[LightBringer]

oh ye I agree.
I think MIR4 shop was a complete fkin rip off, that's an example of what shouldn't be allowed.
You could spend £200 and have NOTHING to show for it because of the RNG nature. summon 200 spirits and get a load of greens.. and ultimately combine them all in 1 green and be massively pissed off having wasted money.

What I hate is when the game forces you to do it because its so bloody good your a fool to not do it... but thats just 1 phycological tactic used by all game devs these days. Like I've said before, Games are a BUSINESS, and businesses are designed to make MONEY.

Yeah agreed on that - as long as you get moneys worth it is what it is!
I never got into Mir4 and glad I didn't as I'd have spent a lot if that was the case, I am a sucker for RNG stuff :')

The reason they do that is the first purchase is always the hardest to get someone to do, once they have that, people then justify the other spends 'because theyve already put money in'

 

[zedina]

Yeah agreed on that - as long as you get moneys worth it is what it is!
I never got into Mir4 and glad I didn't as I'd have spent a lot if that was the case, I am a sucker for RNG stuff :')

The reason they do that is the first purchase is always the hardest to get someone to do, once they have that, people then justify the other spends 'because theyve already put money in'

Reminds me of Diablo Immortal. Cheap packages. Lots of different packages.

 

[WelshSteel]

Players say they dont want "pay to win" with "cash cow" gameshops, but even if the server was truely free to play (no, not elite with its VIP package) and no gameshop etc, NEWS FLASH, the game would STILL be PAY TO WIN.
- pay someone to level them
- buy items privately
then what? you complain to the GM to to ban these people? ok well thats 2 people gone from the server, and then many more to follow as a lot of the user base play to earn by selling these things privately.

The only way to truely eliminate P2W is to remove any form of trade and make everything personal loot / soulbound. But then you ruin the heart of what is a MMORPG. Why do you think many games these days have soulbound, personal loot, no trading etc. not because they want to make the game better but because they want you to spend money in THEIR GAMESHOP, not private.

Anyway, players aint the only problem on this forum, its the server owners as well being toxic towards others. Quick to call others names and stuff yet probably 10x worse themselves. Like a certain server owner that attacked me recently and then I read some gigantic thread about them playing the game and being corrupt (oh how I'm not surprised at all.)

I personally thought by now people would be more grown up but i guess the keyboard warrior never truly leaves some of us.

lvl cap with good sized phases promotes competition and challenge across the board and people who geniunely need to buy into leveling services because of family and work end up being completely fine and help the game thrive.

The trading thing I completely get for not only the difficulty of keeping the game "good feel competitively" but also for how meta practices have become of where if you aren't exploiting players with your system you kind of end up looking like a fool.

I firmly believe with the right attitude and getting behind the right players, subscription models work...
but I'd really like to see some genius plays where essentially gold matters less and is much harder to come by through most enjoyable play practices + some interesting adds for gear that make them less advantageous to trade/TM and replace immediately (one example, SoulBound reworked so it works like Curse and it accumlates at an extremely low chance through killing mobs. If someone trades/TM's/drops a +1 Soulbound item it loses 1 added stat at random. Weapons and gear don't accumulate SoulBound while using rested XP, Kiling players in dungeons in War has chance to remove 1 SoulBound from gear and to encourage de-equip into levelling kit vs PvP Kit...some debuff, all I got xD)

 

[SmavidDavid]

Yes.. people are playing and paying 24 hours a day with paid levellers on them. The fact you don't believe this, just goes to show how you don't understand how deep this problem actually is.

Just ask the likes of Savage/Joe, he is one of many who I know had levellers and 24 hour EXP pots running.

One person alone spent around £5000 on Apoc V2 and I personally know others who had spent £1-2k+ each.

Why does it matter to you how much other people pay? What impact does it have on you?... Nothing

I think everybody is aware of the problem, but it seems a select few GM's who's servers are "losing" players to mechanism not in their files over preferences are getting sour... and now want LOMCN to act to shut these servers and lose those who have disposable incomes.

Are you also expecting LOMCN to put bans on people acc sharing and paying for levellers.. you've highlighted another problem there.

1. "Unfair" Gameshops
2. Fake Usercounts / AFK Mechanics
3. Account Levelling / Sharing

Any other issues to bring to table that are ruining your server, price of eggs? I know Storms moaning about that to me at moment....


Next you'll be asking Gov to Ban Maccy D's and forcing me to eat from healthy shops who don't exploit fat people

 

[xXxLegendxXx]

Discord isn't the issue its you lot, you are children. Stop playing mir and grow up

 

[LightBringer]

Discord isn't the issue its you lot, you are children. Stop playing mir and grow up

No

 

[SmavidDavid]

Discord isn't the issue its you lot, you are children. Stop playing mir and grow up

Problem solved - close forums, keep discord.

 

[Jev]

Discord isn't the issue its you lot, you are children. Stop playing mir and grow up

Discord is the same as the forum in the sense of “If you moderate it well, it won’t be toxic” but that depends on what you count as “toxic”.

 

[Valhalla]

Discord isn't the issue its you lot, you are children. Stop playing mir and grow up

 

[Tai]

Yes.. people are playing and paying 24 hours a day with paid levellers on them. The fact you don't believe this, just goes to show how you don't understand how deep this problem actually is.

Just ask the likes of Savage/Joe, he is one of many who I know had levellers and 24 hour EXP pots running.

One person alone spent around £5000 on Apoc V2 and I personally know others who had spent £1-2k+ each.

Either way I've offered up a solution and you chose to ignore it and continue your moaning instead.

You're what I call a problem guy and not a solution guy, and I don't have time for those. Because ultimately all you want is for us to ban every server other than you and your mates Valhalla and that other one, so you can monopolise the market