Suggestion Regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

[DarkSacred]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Change it so Wizzys can only Hermit Fire/Ice/Lighting and Wind Randomly.

Taos to Holy/Dark/Phantom Randomly.

Allow Warriors and Sins to continue being able to spec 1 Element specifically (How you currently have it) since they have use for all of them.

This will bring the randomness back in and create an element of RNG and stop Wizzys and Taos for specing 1 main element unless they're lucky....but also not creating it to be impossible because they get elements they can't use. Whilst not screwing over Warriors and Sins who i doubt would use Element hermit anyway, but can if they really desire it.

I like this idea, gives you the chance to still roll into the element you would want and may encourage more MC builds.

Just make AE half as effective against players...thatd probably solve the issue for the most part.

This would probably be a quick win, not sure how it would pan out late game coupled with +5 resistance


I think a review of Hermit Stat points may give the best benefits to the server longer term and cut down the silly 50+ element builds were currently seeing.
I assume MR has fail safes built in so that each successive refine reduces the success chance of the next refine.

 

[Pottsy]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

This would be easy to do, but I feel like there'd be so many complains over nerfing that I've not mentioned it.

This would cause a re-roll requirement when you want to PvP.

Players will spec for Wind (As an example), because it's simply best for lvling, and be completely useless in PvP. A lot of the fighting is during PvE situations (Leveling, boss hunting), you can't expect people to spec for killing players when the main goal is a boss and/or lvling.

Sabuk Wars would be fine, but we're not all keeping the fights to the Wars now are we? And that already has the changes of 1 single Tempest, so is really immune from this argument.

I like this idea, gives you the chance to still roll into the element you would want and may encourage more MC builds.

Yeh, the idea was to put back the RNG of the Hermits, but lessen the amount of "Useless" hermits the classes can get, thus improving the RNG at the same time as nerfing the Single element hermits.

I'm sure some will spend millions and get lucky with some nice single element....but at least it won't be 100% for sure and will encourage MC builds as you say.

 

[DarkSacred]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Yeh, the idea was to put back the RNG of the Hermits, but lessen the amount of "Useless" hermits the classes can get, thus improving the RNG at the same time as nerfing the Single element hermits.

I'm sure some will spend millions and get lucky with some nice single element....but at least it won't be 100% for sure and will encourage MC builds as you say.

Sounds like the perfect solution to prevent any QQ in game over one class being "too powerful" and by only allowing you to roll within your own elements its going to stop you feeling robbed when you keep hermiting Holy!

 

[KillerMan]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Changing hermits will dramatically affect pve. If this is implemented then it will dramatically affect people locking up and some people will rage and quit. Yes a change must be done we all can agree on that but doing this could hurt server rather than help it.

i suggest maybe removing tempest and giving wiz’s flame field which does stupid damage for example 500+ but forces wiz to get up close giving assassins and wars a chance to kill them

 

[rickeh]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Changing hermits won't fix the problem, people will still stand either side of a 10x10 tempest field and whoever dares move into it will get ****ed.

 

[jaffar91]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Changing hermits will dramatically affect pve. If this is implemented then it will dramatically affect people locking up and some people will rage and quit. Yes a change must be done we all can agree on that but doing this could hurt server rather than help it.

i suggest maybe removing tempest and giving wiz’s flame field which does stupid damage for example 500+ but forces wiz to get up close giving assassins and wars a chance to kill them

Flame Field on Mir 3? You mad? xD

 

[Pottsy]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Changing hermits won't fix the problem, people will still stand either side of a 10x10 tempest field and whoever dares move into it will get ****ed.

Guessing you haven't seen a Wiz demo the MC build? I did...

The top end damage was higher, but the consistency was pitiful...unless people are running around with at least Luck 5 or 6 even, you aren't going to see static numbers as you are currently seeing from Tempest...it's the Element that is causing the high consistent damage.

Not saying the numbers were weak by any means, but it would certainly allow players to walk through some Tempest without backing out after 1 step in, creating less of a "wall" effect...unless you're a lucky prick and always getting high numbers lol.

Yes, it will effect PvE a little, but realistically we shouldn't have ever had such a high focus ability on Element anyway...I mentioned the problem as soon as it was proposed and nothing came of it...so i instead enjoyed the overpowered element build

 

[Soulspring88]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Why not remove element from hermit..? Seems a simple solution

 

[CremeEgg82]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Why not remove element from hermit..? Seems a simple solution

It will help in the short run, but it doesn't remove the ability to still have really high element, it just makes that a slower build process. As I said in my previous reply, the fact that accessory refine is 100% success and that there are no breaking of weapons from refine you will still see 50+ element builds over time.

I'm sure we will start to see 50 elements on a NMS within the next month or so. There is too little risk in refine/reset/refine or MR.

Heck I remember a guild member breaking 3 or 4 spiral soul blades in a row with the refine stones in Euro. That kind of risk/reward needs to be re-introduced, yes you will still get some outliers in terms of really good rng, but many less will take the risk in the first place knowing they could lose a weapon or accessory entirely.

 

[thebigcheese]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

It will help in the short run, but it doesn't remove the ability to still have really high element, it just makes that a slower build process. As I said in my previous reply, the fact that accessory refine is 100% success and that there are no breaking of weapons from refine you will still see 50+ element builds over time.

I'm sure we will start to see 50 elements on a NMS within the next month or so. There is too little risk in refine/reset/refine or MR.

Heck I remember a guild member breaking 3 or 4 spiral soul blades in a row with the refine stones in Euro. That kind of risk/reward needs to be re-introduced, yes you will still get some outliers in terms of really good rng, but many less will take the risk in the first place knowing they could lose a weapon or accessory entirely.

Not that likely with element on NMS, the cost spirals so much. I have +23 and the gold value id need to attempt +28 is about 20mill. And it could fail and i'd go back down to +18, taking a double hit, losing like 33mill value on kit.

 

[CremeEgg82]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

Not that likely with element on NMS, the cost spirals so much. I have +23 and the gold value id need to attempt +28 is about 20mill. And it could fail and i'd go back down to +18, taking a double hit, losing like 33mill value on kit.

From MR perspective yeah, its incredibly expensive, but there is still the refine/reset/refine option which as far as I'm aware has no limit other than the 14 day cooldown. Someone with enough time on their hands could do pretty well over a couple of months.

 

[Shane/Banshee]

With regards to master refine

Gsp master refine you needed a maximum of 6 fragment iii, anything higher had no effect. So in zircon terms that’s 2-3 mil. However here with the re worked mr system to get from +55 tor 60 I expect you would need over 100 fragment iii for that last refine, at a server value of 30million, previous costs and, also trying to achieve max master refine throughout the process your talking around a 330-350million just to fragment the items. That’s also zero fails. People are not going to risk that sort of gold on a weapon that could smash.

thats not going to happen that fast. Highest wep so far is +22 dc tho I’ve not seen it for a while so could be lower

 

[thebigcheese]

Yeh but the reset stats are based on the added stats, once youve got it +15 it will reset to +3, refining again would be +18 so itll still only reset to +3

 

[Shane/Banshee]

Yeh but the reset stats are based on the added stats, once youve got it +15 it will reset to +3, refining again would be +18 so itll still only reset to +3

Will be + 6 on reset I think?

 

[CremeEgg82]

Will be + 6 on reset I think?

Yeah it stacks back to base stats from what I've seen, so +6/9/12 etc if you put enough time into it

 

[Shane/Banshee]

That’s the idea. Slow and steady progression.

 

[Soulspring88]

It will help in the short run, but it doesn't remove the ability to still have really high element, it just makes that a slower build process. As I said in my previous reply, the fact that accessory refine is 100% success and that there are no breaking of weapons from refine you will still see 50+ element builds over time.

I'm sure we will start to see 50 elements on a NMS within the next month or so. There is too little risk in refine/reset/refine or MR.

Heck I remember a guild member breaking 3 or 4 spiral soul blades in a row with the refine stones in Euro. That kind of risk/reward needs to be re-introduced, yes you will still get some outliers in terms of really good rng, but many less will take the risk in the first place knowing they could lose a weapon or accessory entirely.

Simple fix 2: add a cap which will only allow certain amounts of element added to each item by refine

 

[Ulitma]

Re: Suggestion regarding Sin's PVP--------To Jamie

This is one method that could be worth looking into.

Put an Hermit Element cap? or just put a cap altogether on Element it then forces the user to go mc/sc etc,
Also make looking into crit making it give 1.5x more dmg insted of 2?Or you could slightly adjust element damage see how that goes?

Also with the Tempest problem,Adjust the repulse rate lower see how that goes?Better to take small steps i guess.

 

[SkeemaLOM]

Any warrior saying they have the same problem as sin vs wizz is a **** warrior. You have shoulder dash which gets you through tempest without getting repulsed (or out of it for that matter if tempest is placed on them). A half decent warrior will know depending on the level of his dash where he will end up so if u line up outside the temp, dash in to land next to them u can often get a surprise combo off to devastating effect. Certain warriors on here seem to think pvp for their class is running away to beckon and bladestorm over and over and when they cant do that they run around a wizz like headless chickens trying to avoid tempest whilst looking for lower levels to beckon
Not even gonna go into the fact most warrs are speccing for Mr anyway with maybe a bit of dc unlike sins who if most want to survive are forced into vigor set for the extra hp whilst sacrificing a lot of dc. The numa set is only real set for sins right now due to the dc hp and mp....everthing a sin needs when his hp at LVL 49 with hp gameshop buffs in dc kit is around 700hp

This is a sin PvP topic yet it's being turned into an element/tempest nerf thread....the sin need a little rework in terms of PvP mechanics. I have no issues with our pve state

Would like to also point out sins don't use all elements just fire on flamesplash and lightning on Dragon repulse and even then the scaling feels lacklustre. Removal of karma was indeed a step in right direction but has severly left sins in a strangely weak state but there is still other stuff that remains such as spell power on sin items that should have been reworked. Having tested on beta with 12-12 sin helm and refining spell power on wep there's no real reason to have it for just a tiny extra damage on hellfire

But by all means divert the topic towards elements and tempest you may have good points but it's avoiding the real problem. In other news another of our high level sins has decided to reroll wizz. How many will be left before people look at class strength from another perspective other than their own and what benefits them

---------- Post Merged at 09:56 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:27 AM ----------

Here's a few off the head ideas some that have already been suggested.

Flash of light has always been quite a clunky feeling skill yet on here feels even harder to land than gsp. It's not worth using untill LVL 3 skill and even then landing it on a moving target results in the majority of the time your char doing an air shot. Hitting a moving target with this skill results in said air shot most of the time. It's extra range on it doesn't really feel natural for working it into a combo imo. I would remove the range and have it more guaranteed to hit by having it as an auto attack buff. It should still work as an auto attack reset however so u can do and auto attack followed by a flash of light without having to wait for it to apply on next auto attack so low attack speed sins shouldnt be restricted

Blooms mana % dmg lowered on blooms and dc scaling increased. At high level if most sins are expected to respec into dc rather than mana I'd like if the damage remained on par vs mana sins.

Dance of swallow - I like the idea of it applying a preloaded bloom. Often after u dance of swallows if they are running you still have a gap to close as they still travel a few spaces after you land on them. This is normal on mir with ppl playing at different pings and fps rates such as when u hit someone with a para ring who is running and they manage to get a few spaces away before the para kicks in. This is sometimes wrongly seen as some kind of para cheat to those who don't understand the fps ping differences in terms of gameplay

Spell power on helmets changed to mana. Nothing too game changing just maybe 12_12 spell power to give maybe 25 or 50 mana. This would make helm such as falcon helm actually viable as a burst helm

Hellfire spell power scaling removed and replaced with mana scaling. This would tie in with the helmet changes and make it again more viable to use in both PvE and PvP. Or another idea is to have it apply a slow effect to counter act the removal of rake skill that used to slow a target if you are cloaked. Maybe the amount or duration of slow could be affected by your maximum mana so the hellfire damage won't be affected too much. Currently I only use this skill in Pvp when a target is being chased down by a group so it becomes just a long range dmg tool to make them have to walk for a second longer before being able to continue running away in the hope my team mate can finish the kill and close the gap in time.