Archer/sin op or fine?

[Pottsy]

Not everyone will be happy lol. Even with only 3 classes people complained.

Warriors would complain about Wizards always having range on them. Even though since the very start, it's been known that a Wizard who can kill a Warrior doesn't require much skill, but a Warrior who can kill a Wizard is quite skilful

Each class has a short hand against another, whether you like it or not. Except with 5 it's prob going to be more like 2 classes will be able to pwn you lol

Assassins shouldn't have big base Acc...yes I'm aware it hurts you at the start. But that then forces you have get Acc items, allowing a domino effect to effect your DC, along as Speed items if you wanted, to make it worse...that's the disadvantage

Archers should prob have more damage than Wizards and perhaps just as weak like Sin and Wiz are, considering they are single targets

 

[Insinia123]

Half their HP? ****ing hell you are stupid please GM's dont listen to this donut he has no clue!! i can even tell that and ive been doing ket/mdma all night. LOL DEANO13 You really are funniii!!

Just shows how thick you really are showing off about what drugs you've been taking wow your cool.

 

[daneo1989]

Just shows how thick you really are showing off about what drugs you've been taking wow your cool.

Agree with you on this one, Taking illegal substances is nothing to boast about. and his choice of wording is not realy sane lol

Back on topic, either way people will moan/complain regardless you can never get a class balanced correctly and saying Archer/Sin only works in Asia/Korea because of the player base just shows how sort minded you are.. Its dosnt matter if 100 people play or 10, as long as they enjoy the game which thrives to deliver the latest content to the best of their ability why should anyone complain?

 

[Pottsy]

the three classes in mir counteract each other in certain ways. tell me im wrong...

---------- Post Merged at 09:32 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:14 AM ----------

its way out of wack and the fail attempt to get likes on FB just wont work, Mir Chronicls wont last and ill stand by that till proving wrong sin/archer mite work in asia/korean mir but the player base here is pretty much aload of moist fail gamers who have to p2w just to get a semi erect Epeen (bar me ofc im far to cool, and a select few others...)

---------- Post Merged at 09:40 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:14 AM ----------

Half their HP? ****ing hell you are stupid please GM's dont listen to this donut he has no clue!! i can even tell that and ive been doing ket/mdma all night. LOL DEANO13 You really are funniii!!

Can I be there when you OD or when you decide to kill yourself from suicidal tendencies?

I'll bring a celebrations box and cheer as you pass away

 

[Koriban]

Even though since the very start, it's been known that a Wizard who can kill a Warrior doesn't require much skill, but a Warrior who can kill a Wizard is quite skilful

Dunno what game you've been playing, but I've never seen or heard of a warrior DYING to a Wizzy. TTing maybe in frustration, but dying? You'd have to be mentally handicapped to not press TT in time with all that health pool.

Where as wizzies getting 1/2shot by warriors - and thus wizzies complaining about this? Yup. Heard that before.

Regardless, "Balance" only matters towards the later stages of the game where each class has near/all their abilities. Until I've seen what classes are like at this point, then not much point getting worked up about who does what damage.

 

[daneo1989]

Dunno what game you've been playing, but I've never seen or heard of a warrior DYING to a Wizzy. TTing maybe in frustration, but dying?

Where as wizzies getting 1/2shot by warriors - and thus wizzies complaining about this? Yup. Heard that before.

Take it, you've never played Euro Beta LOL

 

[Pottsy]

Dunno what game you've been playing, but I've never seen or heard of a warrior DYING to a Wizzy. TTing maybe in frustration, but dying? You'd have to be mentally handicapped to not press TT in time with all that health pool.

Where as wizzies getting 1/2shot by warriors - and thus wizzies complaining about this? Yup. Heard that before.

Regardless, "Balance" only matters towards the later stages of the game where each class has near/all their abilities. Until I've seen what classes are like at this point, then not much point getting worked up about who does what damage.

A legitmate fight between 2 players (No potting etc) a Wizard can rather easily win when given enough space. This makes the Warrior quite skillful if he wins the fight, being able to close the gap and lock the player down given all the skills a Wiz has.

TTing is the same as dying at the end of the day....they would have technically still lost the fight.

But as someone said, if you go back to BETA, TTs didn't actually exist haha...and you didn't ALWAYS have one on you (I personally only buy them when i'm hunting)


I'm just speaking from my own experience, in a legitmate fight between 2 players (No groups, friends, guilds, pots, TTing etc) I have never lost against a Warrior when fighting as a Wizard.

The things that factor in the most during PvP is pots, what skills you have (Player skill, not spells), and what spells/level you are...on top of where you're fighting....give a lot of objects on the map and a Wizard will struggle to keep distance, thus losing their greatest advantage

BUT....big open map for everyone to fight 1 on 1? That will be an EQUAL fight and you can really see any balancing issues.

 

[Repo]

Of course wizard is going to win if you're not going to use pots.

 

[Pottsy]

Of course wizard is going to win if you're not going to use pots.

Not always, i've won a few proper fights as a Warrior...it's not impossible just requires a bit more skill than running up to them lol

 

[daneo1989]

Before Auto lock came into Mir you required alot more skill whether you was a warrior, taoist or wizard.

Used to love Euro beta scrapping in BW Jewelery store was awesome, Till Trooper came with his DSS and his rares.
Swear that bloke got freebee's from GMs lol

 

[Aldor]

Firstly I did these tests assuming the trainer in BW knew what he was talking about, if they're wrong blame him. This list is not intended to show the best class for killing bosses, leveling or PvPing, it is merely a list of the maximum single-target DPS each class can do at level 33 against a static target with the same defensive stats as the BW trainer.

I'm not experienced on a Wizard, so I'm not sure if maintaining a FireWall + spamming Lightning is an increase in single-target DPS but the trainer doesn't detect FW damage anyway so it's not something I can test. Also bear in-mind I did not cast MagicShield once on the Wiz.

There is a slightly higher margin of error with the Assassin as it required some extra calculations due to the trainer only reporting 1 attack from DoubleSlash.

Level 33:

01. Assassin DPS=113.23 (24th Dec)
Method: DoubleSlash on, Haste renewed 1 second before expiration.
Equipment: BladesOfDarkness(30), AncientArmour(33), DeathGauntlet(22)x2, CoralRing(25)x2, BlueJadeNecklace(24)
Skills used: FatalSword(3), Proficiency(3), DoubleSlash(3), Haste(3)
Additional Stats: HP: 223, MP: 341, BagWeight: 322
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 33969, Average Hit: 42 (~2.93 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 36, MP used: 3,960, 13.2 MP used per second, 0.24 BagWeight used per second, 4.47% BagWeight used per minute, 95,040 gold spent per hour (4.29 damage per gold spent)

02. Warrior DPS=65.68 (24th Dec)
Method: TwinDrakeBlade spam.
Equipment: JudgementMace(30), IronArmour(33), DeathGauntlet(22)x2, CoralRing(25)x2, BlueJadeNecklace(24)
Skills used: Fencing(3), Slaying(3), TwinDrakeBlade(1)
Additional Stats: HP: 489, MP: 127, BagWeight: 413
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 19705, Average Hit: 39 (~1.68 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 47, MP used: 5,170, 17.23 MP used per second, 0.31 BagWeight used per second, 4.50% BagWeight used per minute, 124,080 gold spent per hour (1.91 damage per gold spent)

03. Wizard DPS=27.63 (24th Dec)
Method: Lightning spam.
Equipment: WarMageStaff(30), WizardRobe(33), EbonyBracelet(19)x2, RubyRing(MC17)x2, ConvexLens(24), GoldenTiara(MC17)
Skills used: Lightning(3)
Additional Stats: HP: 146, MP: 637, BagWeight: 268
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 8289, Average Hit: 61 (~0.45 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 53, MP used: 5,830, 19.43 MP used per second, 0.35 BagWeight used per second, 7.84% BagWeight used per minute, 139,920 gold spent per hour (0.71 damage per gold spent)

04. Wizard DPS=17.96 (24th Dec)
Method: Thunderbolt spam.
Equipment: WarMageStaff(30), WizardRobe(33), EbonyBracelet(19)x2, RubyRing(MC17)x2, ConvexLens(24), GoldenTiara(MC17)
Skills used: Thunderbolt(3)
Additional Stats: HP: 146, MP: 637, BagWeight: 268
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 5387, Average Hit: 39 (~0.46 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 13, MP used: 1,430, 4.77 MP used per second, 0.09 BagWeight used per second, 2.01% BagWeight used per minute, 34,320 gold spent per hour (1.88 damage per gold spent)

I'll try and add the Archer to the list but it's going to take some time to learn the class + level it to 33.

 

[xXxX]

Firstly I did these tests assuming the trainer in BW knew what he was talking about, if they're wrong blame him. This list is not intended to show the best class for killing bosses, leveling or PvPing, it is merely a list of the maximum single-target DPS each class can do at level 33 against a static target with the same defensive stats as the BW trainer.

I'm not experienced on a Wizard, so I'm not sure if maintaining a FireWall + spamming Lightning is an increase in single-target DPS but the trainer doesn't detect FW damage anyway so it's not something I can test. Also bear in-mind I did not cast MagicShield once on the Wiz.

There is a slightly higher margin of error with the Assassin as it required some extra calculations due to the trainer only reporting 1 attack from DoubleSlash.

Level 33:

01. Assassin DPS=113.23 (24th Dec)
Method: DoubleSlash on, Haste renewed 1 second before expiration.
Equipment: BladesOfDarkness(30), AncientArmour(33), DeathGauntlet(22)x2, CoralRing(25)x2, BlueJadeNecklace(24)
Skills used: FatalSword(3), Proficiency(3), DoubleSlash(3), Haste(3)
Additional Stats: HP: 223, MP: 341, BagWeight: 322
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 33969, Average Hit: 42 (~2.93 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 36, MP used: 3,960, 13.2 MP used per second, 0.24 BagWeight used per second, 4.47% BagWeight used per minute, 95,040 gold spent per hour (4.29 damage per gold spent)

02. Warrior DPS=65.68 (24th Dec)
Method: TwinDrakeBlade spam.
Equipment: JudgementMace(30), IronArmour(33), DeathGauntlet(22)x2, CoralRing(25)x2, BlueJadeNecklace(24)
Skills used: Fencing(3), Slaying(3), TwinDrakeBlade(1)
Additional Stats: HP: 489, MP: 127, BagWeight: 413
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 19705, Average Hit: 39 (~1.68 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 71, MP used: 7,810, 26.03 MP used per second, 0.47 BagWeight used per second, 6.82% BagWeight used per minute, 187,440 gold spent per hour (1.26 damage per gold spent)

02. Wizard DPS=27.63 (24th Dec)
Method: Lightning spam.
Equipment: WarMageStaff(30), WizardRobe(33), EbonyBracelet(19)x2, RubyRing(MC17)x2, ConvexLens(24), GoldenTiara(MC17)
Skills used: Lightning(3)
Additional Stats: HP: 146, MP: 637, BagWeight: 268
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 8289, Average Hit: 61 (~0.45 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 53, MP used: 5,830, 19.43 MP used per second, 0.35 BagWeight used per second, 7.84% BagWeight used per minute, 139,920 gold spent per hour (0.71 damage per gold spent)

03. Wizard DPS=17.96 (24th Dec)
Method: Thunderbolt spam.
Equipment: WarMageStaff(30), WizardRobe(33), EbonyBracelet(19)x2, RubyRing(MC17)x2, ConvexLens(24), GoldenTiara(MC17)
Skills used: Thunderbolt(3)
Additional Stats: HP: 146, MP: 637, BagWeight: 268
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 5387, Average Hit: 39 (~0.46 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 13, MP used: 1,430, 4.77 MP used per second, 0.09 BagWeight used per second, 2.01% BagWeight used per minute, 34,320 gold spent per hour (1.88 damage per gold spent)

I'll try and add the Archer to the list but it's going to take some time to learn the class + level it to 33.

ouch at the 33 war comparison to sin except the hp lol >.< nice work though

will you be streaming at any point today btw?

 

[daneo1989]

Nice write up Aldor, You need to accept the Assassin is basically a Fast Attk class which should have less ACC then the warrior. where's the warrior is basically gonna be a Med DPS / Tank

Going tobe intresting when Aldor dose the Archer write up, Also can we also get a Taoist one m8.

 

[xXxX]

Nice write up Aldor, You need to accept the Assassin is basically a Fast Attk class which should have less ACC then the warrior. where's the warrior is basically gonna be a Med DPS / Tank

Going tobe intresting when Aldor dose the Archer write up, Also can we also get a Taoist one m8.

yes thats true but on stream im pretty sure i saw sin with 17 acc with is pretty much same as a warr with lvl 3 slaying and fencing, and that's without having to acc gem kit etc.

 

[FROZEN5]

Before Auto lock came into Mir you required alot more skill

lol

 

[Koriban]

A legitmate fight between 2 players (No potting etc) a Wizard can rather easily win when given enough space. This makes the Warrior quite skillful if he wins the fight, being able to close the gap and lock the player down given all the skills a Wiz has.

TTing is the same as dying at the end of the day....they would have technically still lost the fight.

But as someone said, if you go back to BETA, TTs didn't actually exist haha...and you didn't ALWAYS have one on you (I personally only buy them when i'm hunting)


I'm just speaking from my own experience, in a legitmate fight between 2 players (No groups, friends, guilds, pots, TTing etc) I have never lost against a Warrior when fighting as a Wizard.

The things that factor in the most during PvP is pots, what skills you have (Player skill, not spells), and what spells/level you are...on top of where you're fighting....give a lot of objects on the map and a Wizard will struggle to keep distance, thus losing their greatest advantage

BUT....big open map for everyone to fight 1 on 1? That will be an EQUAL fight and you can really see any balancing issues.

Like with every single Mir server, Euro and Euro Beta included, Mir relied entirely on speed. A level 35 warrior with TDB could beat a level 40 warrior if they were twice as fast, because they'd never get hit.

Same applies to the wizz vs warr. I'm assuming you've never lost to a warr because either all you've fought are slow warriors, or you're a fast wizzard. Anyone here who's going to deny that speed was the first and foremost factor of a fight in Mir is lying to themselves. Hopefully Samuels Mir doesn't have this due to the frame limiter and so it'll be even, this is what I'm hoping to test.

In a completely equal matchup of speed and kit, either class can win if NOT potting depends entirely on skill at this point. If potting, the warrior will 90% more likely win, because they can always carry the most pots, and require less mana to do serious damage. Obviously if we're PvPing then sure, it's a fair fight, but Mir isn't about PvP, it's about PK.

You're both right and wrong in terms of environment being a factor for wizzies losing. If a wizzy is surrounded by mobs, warr can just run up and thrust him twice (cuts shield, cuts AC) and he's dead. However, if it's a closed space but there aren't -that- many mobs around, Wizz can just Spam FW for eternity and piss the Warrior enough to leave/give up and force him to TT. Same applies to an open space, but in an open space a warrior can at least manoeuvre around the FW's waiting for an opening.

In the world of Mir, TTing is not the same as dying. PKing exists purely because we can body drop. If you can PK people easier, you can kit yourself out easier and deter people from fighting you over a boss. Not sure why you're talking about Euro Beta when it was over 12 years ago, but sure, in that aspect Dungeon Escapes still existed and so did RT's and all my above points still apply (In fact, TT's still existed, you're wrong here - cavebats dropped them, I remember farming them + small stones). The only reason people died to wizzies was because FlameField is/was Retardedly overpowered. I should know, I played an FF wizz lol.

So sorry, but unless we're living in a magical world were we PvP each other in caves for funsies, a warrior with any sense doesn't die to a wizz. Group fights are where wizzies truly shine

01. Assassin DPS=113.23 (24th Dec)
Method: DoubleSlash on, Haste renewed 1 second before expiration.
Equipment: BladesOfDarkness(30), AncientArmour(33), DeathGauntlet(22)x2, CoralRing(25)x2, BlueJadeNecklace(24)
Skills used: FatalSword(3), Proficiency(3), DoubleSlash(3), Haste(3)
Additional Stats: HP: 223, MP: 341, BagWeight: 322
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 33969, Average Hit: 42 (~2.93 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 36, MP used: 3,960, 13.2 MP used per second, 0.24 BagWeight used per second, 4.47% BagWeight used per minute, 95,040 gold spent per hour (4.29 damage per gold spent)

02. Warrior DPS=65.68 (24th Dec)
Method: TwinDrakeBlade spam.
Equipment: JudgementMace(30), IronArmour(33), DeathGauntlet(22)x2, CoralRing(25)x2, BlueJadeNecklace(24)
Skills used: Fencing(3), Slaying(3), TwinDrakeBlade(1)
Additional Stats: HP: 489, MP: 127, BagWeight: 413
Damage Result: Sample period = 300 seconds, Total Dmg: 19705, Average Hit: 39 (~1.68 attacks per second)
Mana Consumption: (MP)DrugMedium Used: 47, MP used: 5,170, 17.23 MP used per second, 0.31 BagWeight used per second, 4.50% BagWeight used per minute, 124,080 gold spent per hour (1.91 damage per gold spent)

We can ignore Wizzy DPS because they've always been terrible at single target DPS, barring maybe FlameDisruptor. FlameField is the spell I'd use to gauge a wizzies power, but it's AoE :P

Comparing these two, my concerns seem to be proven correct. I think Sins get too many "free" stats atm. However I still feel late game the warrior wins simply due to a massive health pool difference but they need to put in so much more work to get that result.

I actually like the fact sins are hard hitting, but I think they need their health lowering a tad more if they're going to remain this strong. Bursty single target DPS, but squishy. Sounds like an assassin to me.

 

[Jicaa]

ouch at the 33 war comparison to sin except the hp lol >.< nice work though

will you be streaming at any point today btw?

Keep in mind, during his tests the warrior only had TDB level 1, isn't level 3 alot stronger?

From looking at the wizards damage, it could do with a damage increase or the cast speed increased slightly. Not sure anyone will want to play wizard if they end up thar far behind on single target, ofcourse they will dominate AoE as they always have, but with the lack of single damage you would be used in guild runs just to kill trash upto the boss >.<

 

[Repo]

Keep in mind, during his tests the warrior only had TDB level 1, isn't level 3 alot stronger?

From looking at the wizards damage, it could do with a damage increase or the cast speed increased slightly. Not sure anyone will want to play wizard if they end up thar far behind on single target, ofcourse they will dominate AoE as they always have, but with the lack of single damage you would be used in guild runs just to kill trash upto the boss >.<

This has always been the job of a wizard... and so it should be, increasing single target damage while they have best aoe + fastest lvlers would be silly.

 

[Aldor]

Keep in mind, during his tests the warrior only had TDB level 1, isn't level 3 alot stronger?

From looking at the wizards damage, it could do with a damage increase or the cast speed increased slightly. Not sure anyone will want to play wizard if they end up thar far behind on single target, ofcourse they will dominate AoE as they always have, but with the lack of single damage you would be used in guild runs just to kill trash upto the boss >.<

Yea my guess is that Sins were introduced late on the official servers so it was decided to give them all their dmging skills early on to let them catch up. I've not seen any of the high level Sin skills but comparing to official EU/US I have everything I need to DPS at lvl 33. Whereas the warrior does not have FS, lvl 3 TDB, or Rage. I'm expecting what others are saying that Warrs will catch up and possibly overtake Sins at high level.

As for Wizards, again they don't have their best single target spell at lvl 33 and if Lightning was able to hit 8? targets constantly it would be double the DPS an assassin does.

I really need to see more of the Sin before I can be sure but so far it doesn't seem too OP but certainly does have an advantage early on over the Warr. However with it's HP pool I don't feel as safe as I do on a Warr

 

[DavidShaw]

Test the warrior and the Ass on a mob with 100AC , tell me if tdb or doubleslash is more dps.


...flawed logic from the outtset