Tao Vs Sin

[Arrow]

GM can u look into deva ?

when i pvp a tao icant even hit him the deva hits me every ,5 sec lol REMOVE DEVA!

 

[Xx69xX]

I cant agree with you more,, its stupid. I get that in an open space.. a tao gunna own me, but how can I lure on a tao and still be getting owned by deva, its STUPID as fk.

 

[reecew]

Should be able to noob light the pet tbh

 

[Zed]

Deva is pretty silly, it's why I don't pvp Taos, that and they never really have value in their kit (thats worth the effort or trying to kill them)

Being able to Moonlight Deva would be somewhat useful, but you would still have the issue of getting bombarded by SFBs and you can only walk after the tao (who can run) else Deva will see you again.
I don't know a fix for this, possibly make Devas walk towards the unit its hitting not towards the back of the tao, that and lower the hp.

 

[Judges]

I cant agree with you more,, its stupid. I get that in an open space.. a tao gunna own me, but how can I lure on a tao and still be getting owned by deva, its STUPID as fk.

Deva is shockingly good in PVP yet useless in PVE. It still does not allow a Taoist to hunt solo (although some argue they are a support class). It is extremely difficult to get the balance right with regards to pets. The problem is that Taoists need them to survive yet they are so poorly balanced because of it during PVP. A suggestion would be to amend the code so they hit mobs harder and decrease the attack in PVP.

Poison is also shocking. I had a Taoist poison me for over 21 the other day. Poison / Soul FireBall / Shinsu / Deva all at the same time. Its actually hard to survive using sunpots at times.

In comparison to Archers Assassins are completely useless. Archers hit much harder and have a skill to slow people down plus a mass attack. Assassins have nothing to mass attack and don't hit very hard either; Archers definitely pack more of a punch.

The cool down on Trap is absolutely laughable. A Taoist can Trap multiple mobs at once yet there's around a 20 second cool down for Assassins with one mob.

 

[Arrow]

it is not about how hard a diva hits..
it is about how constant. making you unable to move

 

[ILovePie:D]

Remove the @deva masterstarget command.

 

[lancelot1]

Remove the @deva masterstarget command.

No.

Just make it hit harder, but more rarely. Say twice as hard, twice as rarely. There, no more stuttering and interrupting runs every half second.

And over 21 what? Green poison never does more than 10/5s afaik oO. Was this changed?

And by trap you mean Trap Hex, which is triggered by anything moving in the hexagon, like a pet following the Sin it's attacking and pulling all aggro to itself?

 

[Arrow]

could some one make a poll on whether or not remove divas master command

 

[ILovePie:D]

No.

Just make it hit harder, but more rarely. Say twice as hard, twice as rarely. There, no more stuttering and interrupting runs every half second.

And over 21 what? Green poison never does more than 10/5s afaik oO. Was this changed?

And by trap you mean Trap Hex, which is triggered by anything moving in the hexagon, like a pet following the Sin it's attacking and pulling all aggro to itself?

The masters target is what is making it over powered.

If it was normal attack mode, then it would randomly hit other targets around, if in a lure.

Taos already have it easy, OP pets, can use 2 braces, auto swap between poisons/ammys, no res ammy needed.

Keep the deva power how it is, just lose masters target

 

[Zed]

The masters target is what is making it over powered.

If it was normal attack mode, then it would randomly hit other targets around, if in a lure.

Taos already have it easy, OP pets, can use 2 braces, auto swap between poisons/ammys, no res ammy needed.

Keep the deva power how it is, just lose masters target

He actually does have a point, tao's have a lot easier time on this server with the auto swaps and such

Master target is a pain in the but for all melee v tao pvp =[

 

[lancelot1]

Yeah, only that's generally not desired, which is why some servers have the different pet modes (active/passive). Specifically because the lack of master targetting is annoying as all hell to play with. You go on and try doing any boss/sub with pets only to have them wander off after respawned mobs with huge sight ranges. See how much fun it is.

Name one other MMO where you can't control which pets your targets hit or one where you can and other players consistently whine that it's OP that the pet class can sic their pets on you.

 

[ILovePie:D]

Yeah, only that's generally not desired, which is why some servers have the different pet modes (active/passive). Specifically because the lack of master targetting is annoying as all hell to play with. You go on and try doing any boss/sub with pets only to have them wander off after respawned mobs with huge sight ranges. See how much fun it is.

Name one other MMO where you can't control which pets your targets hit or one where you can and other players consistently whine that it's OP that the pet class can sic their pets on you.

OK, let's not forget the poison that lasts a lifetime with sub 30 SC? SFB that hits 80's?

Taos have it very easy on this server. You have a lot of buffs already in there, that make you strong.

The deva masters target made them seriously OP. I use a tao, and I agree with it, and all other taos know it.

Wiz cannot use this target for their pets, imagine how OP that would be with 5 blue frogs locked onto you constantly?

 

[lancelot1]

OK, let's not forget the poison that lasts a lifetime with sub 30 SC? SFB that hits 80's?

Taos have it very easy on this server. You have a lot of buffs already in there, that make you strong.

The deva masters target made them seriously OP. I use a tao, and I agree with it, and all other taos know it.

Wiz cannot use this target for their pets, imagine how OP that would be with 5 blue frogs locked onto you constantly?

Poison does capped [crap] damage. I would hardly use green poison as an argument to show that Tao damage is OP.

And SFB hitting for 80 is paltry when you compare it to Thunderstorms that hit 24 surrounding mobs for 80-100, Lightning that hits for 160 in a straight line, TBolts that hit for 100, archer arrows that hit for more than 80 in a straight line (while they're much tankier than a Tao).

We have poison and top end stat buffs which can amount to a bonus of 1 ac/amc/dc/sc during the course of a fight if you're unlucky. So what?

Who are all the other Taos? Do you play a Tao regularly? If so, what level is he/she? Did you level him/her to 38 or further yourself?

Now, back to my question: can you name any single well-known MMO where you, as a class that relies heavily on pets (and please don't even try to say that Taos don't), can't control which target they go after? Just one.

The fact that there aren't any (to my knowledge) shows why the suggestion to reduce ASpeed and increase damage would keep everyone happy. I mean Taos can already hide/mass hide, so I don't see how "the pets would hit other random targets in the area instead" is a valid arguemnt. That doesn't really happen if you rest + hide + mass hide pets and everything starts chasing whoever's attacking the Tao. It doesn't always happen that way, sure, but you can just run away, rest pets again, recall them to you, mass hide and voila.

You need to understand that people don't like not being in control. People dislike randomness when it doesn't potentially benefit them. That's why people spam Benes on JMaces, to try and turn that 0-30 into a 10-30 and get more consistent results when using it. That's why Wizzies wouldn't be particularly thrilled if their TBolts did anywhere between 15 and 190 damage on any given hit.

Fact of the matter is that no class is fundamentally OP compared to the rest. If you're good enough and similarly kitted/of similar level you'll have a more than fair chance of beating any other class 1 on 1 and it's fairly moot to go into a conversation about how X would fare against Y when Z is luring onto both of them.

Whenever lures come into play the winner is either the one that gets into a spot where only 1-2 mobs can hit them first (if it exists), the ranged one (if one is melee) or the one that can hide and spam heal himself.

 

[ILovePie:D]

Poison does capped [crap] damage. I would hardly use green poison as an argument to show that Tao damage is OP.#

Try it against a wizard with 200hp?
And SFB hitting for 80 is paltry when you compare it to Thunderstorms that hit 24 surrounding mobs for 80-100, Lightning that hits for 160 in a straight line, TBolts that hit for 100, archer arrows that hit for more than 80 in a straight line (while they're much tankier than a Tao).

You should spend more time, and realise that those numbers you've just quoted for wizard damage, are bullshit.
We have poison and top end stat buffs which can amount to a bonus of 1 ac/amc/dc/sc during the course of a fight if you're unlucky. So what?

Who are all the other Taos? Do you play a Tao regularly? If so, what level is he/she? Did you level him/her to 38 or further yourself?

I use a 44 tao and 42 tao. None of which i've leveled a lot myself. This isn't about how slow taos level though, it's about how OP devas masters target is.
Now, back to my question: can you name any single well-known MMO where you, as a class that relies heavily on pets (and please don't even try to say that Taos don't), can't control which target they go after? Just one.
This isn't every other MMO though, this is Mir. This is also the only MMO i know that you have to earn your skills, and you can't buy them from an NPC when you hit the required level
The fact that there aren't any (to my knowledge) shows why the suggestion to reduce ASpeed and increase damage would keep everyone happy. I mean Taos can already hide/mass hide, so I don't see how "the pets would hit other random targets in the area instead" is a valid arguemnt. That doesn't really happen if you rest + hide + mass hide pets and everything starts chasing whoever's attacking the Tao. It doesn't always happen that way, sure, but you can just run away, rest pets again, recall them to you, mass hide and voila.

You need to understand that people don't like not being in control. People dislike randomness when it doesn't potentially benefit them. That's why people spam Benes on JMaces, to try and turn that 0-30 into a 10-30 and get more consistent results when using it. That's why Wizzies wouldn't be particularly thrilled if their TBolts did anywhere between 15 and 190 damage on any given hit.

So you agree that wizard pets, should also be controllable, and that you won't cry like a girl when you get nuked by 5 blue frogs within 2 seconds?
Fact of the matter is that no class is fundamentally OP compared to the rest. If you're good enough and similarly kitted/of similar level you'll have a more than fair chance of beating any other class 1 on 1 and it's fairly moot to go into a conversation about how X would fare against Y when Z is luring onto both of them.

Whenever lures come into play the winner is either the one that gets into a spot where only 1-2 mobs can hit them first (if it exists), the ranged one (if one is melee) or the one that can hide and spam heal himself.

Comments in red.

 

[lancelot1]

Wizzies have Magic Shield, they very rarely have 200 effective HP. Taos have **** all.

The numbers are NOT bullshit, I was hit for 160 twice by a 33 wizzie using Lightning in ST, my SFBs hit her for 40-something.

Whether you leveled a Tao or not is very relevant, because leveling and playing a Tao would be miles more enjoyable if you had master targetting on for all pets, not just Deva. Killing stuff with more than one mob around if your pets can't just steam roll each type of mob solo is a joke at the moment. You should know this. If not it's you who needs to spend more time playing a Tao.

No, Mir is not the same as every other MMO, but when literally every other MMO lets pet classes control exactly what their pets do since about 2004 maybe it's Mir that's in the wrong and not everyone else. Occam's Razor and all. Just saying. Also, in GW2 you don't gain skills for doing nothing. You gain weapon skills for using a weapon, you unlock utility/Elite skills by using skill points (you gain 1/level, "higher" utility skills cost 5 each, Elites cost 10-30 each).

Wizard pets are 1.) by no means mandatory for a Wiz to be useful (which is why they have untame times) and 2.) built from the ground up with a mob mentality. You're forgetting that we started out with just one Skele, then one Shin or Skele, then one Shin and Skele and after many, many years pets that don't die if you d/c for half a second. It's normal for one Shin to do more damage than one Tong, because you can't freaking have 5 Shins. You don't need to be able to carefully control every action of each of your 5 pets (which would be a logistical nightmare in and of itself) if they just annihilate literally everything by themselves after you cast one lousy Thunderbolt/AdmFB/etc.

Don't compare Wizards and Taos as equally reliant on their pets, because that's bullshit and you know it. I was talking about control over core aspects of the class. Pets and buffs for Taos, spell damage for wizzies, weapon/skill damage for warriors.

But by all means, make all Wizard pets have master targetting, not untame and give Taos 2 Shins, 2 Skeles and a Deva at the same time, even if only the Deva has master targetting. Then you can call them both pet classes on equal footing and see every Tao mop the floor with every everything else.

I don't even know why you're trying to get Taos unnecessarily nerfed. If the issue Sins have against Taos is that Devas constantly interrupt them, reducing their cast speed would resolve that.

Why are you so hellbent on taking the one good thing that's happened to Taos since I can't even remember, and that is having ONE out of three pets that actually does what you want them to?

 

[ILovePie:D]

Wizzies have Magic Shield, they very rarely have 200 effective HP. Taos have **** all.

Magic shield doesn't help against poison, and i'm sure you can almost take a wiz down if he didn't pot. Clearly that doesn't happen, but all contributes towards damage.

The numbers are NOT bullshit, I was hit for 160 twice by a 33 wizzie using Lightning in ST, my SFBs hit her for 40-something.

Lightning is a good skill yes, I doubt the lvl 33 wiz did that. But the other numbers are made up.

Whether you leveled a Tao or not is very relevant, because leveling and playing a Tao would be miles more enjoyable if you had master targetting on for all pets, not just Deva. Killing stuff with more than one mob around if your pets can't just steam roll each type of mob solo is a joke at the moment. You should know this. If not it's you who needs to spend more time playing a Tao.

Think PVP as well as PVE. Taos are a support class, so shouldnt be 'steam rolling' through mobs.

No, Mir is not the same as every other MMO, but when literally every other MMO lets pet classes control exactly what their pets do since about 2004 maybe it's Mir that's in the wrong and not everyone else. Occam's Razor and all. Just saying. Also, in GW2 you don't gain skills for doing nothing. You gain weapon skills for using a weapon, you unlock utility/Elite skills by using skill points (you gain 1/level, "higher" utility skills cost 5 each, Elites cost 10-30 each).

Go play another MMO then?

Wizard pets are 1.) by no means mandatory for a Wiz to be useful (which is why they have untame times) and 2.) built from the ground up with a mob mentality.

Please don't compare Wizards and Taos as equally reliant on their pets, because that's bullshit and you know it. I was talking about control over core aspects of the class. Pets and buffs for Taos, spell damage for wizzies, weapon/skill damage for warriors.

But by all means, make all Wizard pets have master targetting, not untame and give Taos 2 Shins, 2 Skeles and a Deva at the same time, even if just the Deva has master targetting. Then you can call them both pet classes on equal footing and see every Tao mop the floor with every everything else.

I don't even know why you're trying to get Taos unnecessarily nerfed. If the issue Sins have against Taos is that Devas constantly interrupt them, reducing their cast speed would resolve that.

Nerfed? They were fine before they were unneccesarily buffed

Why are you so hellbent on taking the one good thing that's happened to Taos since I can't even remember, and that is having ONE out of three pets that actually does what you want them to?

Because they are too OP for PVP, no one can get near them. It's laughable.

 

[deano13]

Deva is shockingly good in PVP yet useless in PVE. It still does not allow a Taoist to hunt solo (although some argue they are a support class). It is extremely difficult to get the balance right with regards to pets. The problem is that Taoists need them to survive yet they are so poorly balanced because of it during PVP. A suggestion would be to amend the code so they hit mobs harder and decrease the attack in PVP.

Poison is also shocking. I had a Taoist poison me for over 21 the other day. Poison / Soul FireBall / Shinsu / Deva all at the same time. Its actually hard to survive using sunpots at times.

In comparison to Archers Assassins are completely useless. Archers hit much harder and have a skill to slow people down plus a mass attack. Assassins have nothing to mass attack and don't hit very hard either; Archers definitely pack more of a punch.

The cool down on Trap is absolutely laughable. A Taoist can Trap multiple mobs at once yet there's around a 20 second cool down for Assassins with one mob.

+1

 

[lancelot1]

Because they are too OP for PVP, no one can get near them. It's laughable.

You really should try playing a Tao before basing your opinion on what you saw after playing your buddy's 40-something Tao for a bit. Go ahead and level one to 38 yourself, then come back and tell me how wildly OP you would consider it if Skellies and Shins had master targetting, considering that if you don't actively seek out PvPing in crowded dungeon floors you'll end up caring about this a whopping 2-5 times by the time you hit 38.

I'm done. BH will do what he deems best, there's no point in me wasting time and energy arguing with someone who calls me a liar for no reason, who uses "go play something else if you disagree with unnecessary changes that I personally want!" as an argument and who responds to others' points hyper-selectively. I'm guessing you're ignoring more than half because you don't have any half-decent counter-argument and it would do your stance more harm than good to acknowledge them.

Quite the blooming Demosthenes, you are.

Edit: wait, didn't BH say "no" to this suggestion a while ago? Yeah, he totally did. Do you think he changed his mind in the intervening 10 days?

 

[ILovePie:D]

You really should try playing a Tao before basing your opinion on what you saw after playing your buddy's 40-something Tao for a bit.

I got a tao to 43 on euro exp, with none of the extra features that this server offers. Including no 2 x skeles. Using only 1 brace. Having a deva that worked as it was supposed to, not with the OP buff. Having to swap poison/ammys if needed, or re-equip fresh ones. Ammys and poison that were 200 max capacity, not 500. No autopot. Where taos sfb/pets/general damage was **** compared to here.

Hardly "hyper-selecting" my quotes. Just didn't see the point in going over something again. Taos have been looked after well on here.