Sunpot Delay

[GimmeAKitKat]

Re: Monk Beta Testers Required!

Ozzie - Warrior

ride:

Edit sentence that states other classes too, and only highlight one of my character classes. Is this really your best effort?

Wizz, Tao, and occasionally Sin, my opinion still stands, Sun pots are better when playing all my characters.

 

[solidussnake]

As already stated, I have no issues on the pk/war front as I quite enjoy the challenge myself and on the whole it has worked to our advantage.
However for bosses like GK/DK/EE & WL (bosses that actually make you use a pot and not the low tier **** you amateurs like to camp and kill) it has become a tactical game.

Any1 who knows me, knows that I don't do greed killing. I only enjoy hunting with guild and hunting **** that puts you on edge.

Perhaps remove the sun pot restriction in hellcave 3f+ orcs 6f+ lostship 3f+?

/aso

 

[Mystickiller]

Client wont dl for me but I agree this is a mindless change inspired by the bordem of the low tier campers. Maybe try to kill DK etc without suns and see how you fair. The short answer is you wont. You'll fail and cry and eventually once the rest of the server has caught up it will be put back.

These "nerfs" have become a mainstay on this server starting with the ninja buffs to drops on the first week of the server, then certain bosses nerfed that just seemed to be dropping too good then the evolution of the new mindless non unique drop list for the most part. Going on to the nerf of archers multiple times (remember when static shot bounced more than it does now?) and AB due to just a few in endgame gear.

Wizzys were blanket buffed and given a x1.5 or whatever multiplier on all spells for the most part instead of balancing each spell one by one. Now their broken for the current balance across other classes. No surprise.

 

[Jicaa]

As already stated, I have no issues on the pk/war front as I quite enjoy the challenge myself and on the whole it has worked to our advantage.
However for bosses like GK/DK/EE & WL (bosses that actually make you use a pot and not the low tier **** you amateurs like to camp and kill) it has become a tactical game.

Any1 who knows me, knows that I don't do greed killing. I only enjoy hunting with guild and hunting **** that puts you on edge.

Perhaps remove the sun pot restriction in hellcave 3f+ orcs 6f+ lostship 3f+?

/aso

You make Mir sound a lot more enjoyable now!

Using tactics to kill a boss insted of just slapping it silly.

 

[SmavidDavid]

Moral of the story - aka cant be bothered to read all the boring preaching above:

Sunpots usage speed is NOT the issue its a shoddy code change to fix a different problem. Stacking of pots & drop rate of sunnys is. Where as on euro you'd have 10 HP bundles of 80 large pots you'd have stacks of 20. (20 is limit i think? Memory block). Therefore that is 6 extra sunpots. You then then have bundles which is a 36 sunpots. Now going by this on euro i remember only hunting with about 10! But here i could have 60+, i think abody can see this issue.



I've highlighted the problem above so what is the solution?
• Remove bundles
• Make more varietys so low levels can kill oma warriors etc & get sunpots which are not useful to higher levels
• Halve sunpot drop rate if not quater.

Exreme fixes
• Remove stacking & add auto open on bundles to fill up bag space to stop so many open spots being used
• Cap sunpots in bag to 10/15 or a desired number (is this even possible?)


to many people are looking at the benefit of the delay rather than the root cause as to why this bodge has been implimented. People will die faster with only 15 sunies on spam than 60+ on 1sec.

 

[Samuel]

Re: Monk Beta Testers Required!

You said the exact same thing to me in a private message. Turns out you can't say "all the feedback has been positive" to multiple people who are giving you negative feedback....what your really saying is you think your right and don't care about real feedback? The sunpot change is a stupid lazy way of making this "more difficult" and since "more difficult" is the only reason you may have some support for the change try actually balancing as the result of balancing is more real competition and add new content.

You have had players tell you they are leaving the game over this change, stop deluding yourself And misleading the community with "all the feedback has been positive."

I will correct my statement "95% of the feedback has been positive", which was a point in time statement, obviously this thread has mixed reviews.

Sam

 

[Azz]

Moral of the story - aka cant be bothered to read all the boring preaching above:

Sunpots usage speed is NOT the issue its a shoddy code change to fix a different problem. Stacking of pots & drop rate of sunnys is. Where as on euro you'd have 10 HP bundles of 80 large pots you'd have stacks of 20. (20 is limit i think? Memory block). Therefore that is 6 extra sunpots. You then then have bundles which is a 36 sunpots. Now going by this on euro i remember only hunting with about 10! But here i could have 60+, i think abody can see this issue.



I've highlighted the problem above so what is the solution?
• Remove bundles
• Make more varietys so low levels can kill oma warriors etc & get sunpots which are not useful to higher levels
• Halve sunpot drop rate if not quater.

Exreme fixes
• Remove stacking & add auto open on bundles to fill up bag space to stop so many open spots being used
• Cap sunpots in bag to 10/15 or a desired number (is this even possible?)


to many people are looking at the benefit of the delay rather than the root cause as to why this bodge has been implimented. People will die faster with only 15 sunies on spam than 60+ on 1sec.

Pretty much same as what I put in my post. However I can't see them changing the limit/drop rates or bundles so this is next best thing.

---------- Post Merged at 08:06 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 08:04 AM ----------

As already stated, I have no issues on the pk/war front as I quite enjoy the challenge myself and on the whole it has worked to our advantage.
However for bosses like GK/DK/EE & WL (bosses that actually make you use a pot and not the low tier **** you amateurs like to camp and kill) it has become a tactical game.

Any1 who knows me, knows that I don't do greed killing. I only enjoy hunting with guild and hunting **** that puts you on edge.

Perhaps remove the sun pot restriction in hellcave 3f+ orcs 6f+ lostship 3f+?

/aso

Wow this **** just got awkward... We have been killing those bosses since the sun pot change and doing just fine thanks.

Now who's the amateur?

 

[Samuel]

Moral of the story - aka cant be bothered to read all the boring preaching above:

Sunpots usage speed is NOT the issue its a shoddy code change to fix a different problem. Stacking of pots & drop rate of sunnys is. Where as on euro you'd have 10 HP bundles of 80 large pots you'd have stacks of 20. (20 is limit i think? Memory block). Therefore that is 6 extra sunpots. You then then have bundles which is a 36 sunpots. Now going by this on euro i remember only hunting with about 10! But here i could have 60+, i think abody can see this issue.



I've highlighted the problem above so what is the solution?
• Remove bundles
• Make more varietys so low levels can kill oma warriors etc & get sunpots which are not useful to higher levels
• Halve sunpot drop rate if not quater.

Exreme fixes
• Remove stacking & add auto open on bundles to fill up bag space to stop so many open spots being used
• Cap sunpots in bag to 10/15 or a desired number (is this even possible?)


to many people are looking at the benefit of the delay rather than the root cause as to why this bodge has been implimented. People will die faster with only 15 sunies on spam than 60+ on 1sec.

Correct and incorrect... Some classes rely on Sun Pots and without them they would be a little screwed, so by reducing/removing them we don't really screw over the people that are "abusing" them, we mostly screw over the guys that are reliant on them...

What do I mean by "abusing", some scripts had been made that would auto pot suns, this script would mimic the behavior of mouse movement and clicks (this means they are impossible to detect)... These scripts would allow people to pretty much become invincible because their as soon as their hp dropped they would automatically use a sun pot (I understand that reducing sun pots would mean that they have less to use, but it would also mean that someone that genuinely needs sun pots to play the game also has less sun pots).

So the 1 second delay was actually given some thought so that we could make these scripts less effective without massively screwing over genuine players... Also I am not saying that these scripts are no longer being used, but I believe the 1 second delay has 100% made them less effective.

Sam

 

[MelkorXV]

1 second delay fine with me, stops the script abuse and hasn't hindered us at all

 

[Samuel]

So the 1 second delay was actually given some thought so that we could make these scripts less effective without massively screwing over genuine players... Also I am not saying that these scripts are no longer being used, but I believe the 1 second delay has 100% made them less effective.

Sam

1 second delay fine with me, stops the script abuse and hasn't hindered us at all

This is what we were trying to plan for.

Sam

 

[Shane/Banshee]

Correct and incorrect... Some classes rely on Sun Pots and without them they would be a little screwed, so by reducing/removing them we don't really screw over the people that are "abusing" them, we mostly screw over the guys that are reliant on them...

So the 1 second delay was actually given some thought so that we could make these scripts less effective without massively screwing over genuine players... Also I am not saying that these scripts are no longer being used, but I believe the 1 second delay has 100% made them less effective.

Sam

The only classes that would be screwed are the new ones which you have introduced without thinking about the most important fact and that is there health pool. Wizzy Wars Taos never had issue on euro, if they have issues on here is because you have made things hit to hard.for exmple orc sourcer -500 from 1 met whats the point? it normally wipes out the sins and archers there and then.

The issue you have now with this change is that classes that dont rely on suns warriors,wizzys and taos in pvp have gained a buff from this. sure a wiz will be in trouble when its shield drops but id rather have this issue then having no shield or hp pool to buff the incoming damage.

next you have crazy hitting bosses. i went on a GK hunt once with GK and a blood mage hitting me i drank 32 suns in the space of 20 seconds. with out the delay i would have died in 3seconds.

Balance the bosses/mobs damage buff there defenses agil or ac amc or even health or respawns, remove sun bundles. you can then balance things a lot easier, Thats how euro worked. i think mir2 forever went down this route as well, removing stacked suns which is a bigger issue then what you have here.

im also positive for the change of 1 second per pot, but id like the mobs balanced in relation to this, esp the lower effective health pool players

 

[Sorry]

The only classes that would be screwed are the new ones which you have introduced without thinking about the most important fact and that is there health pool. Wizzy Wars Taos never had issue on euro, if they have issues on here is because you have made things hit to hard.for exmple orc sourcer -500 from 1 met whats the point? it normally wipes out the sins and archers there and then.

The issue you have now with this change is that classes that dont rely on suns warriors,wizzys and taos in pvp have gained a buff from this. sure a wiz will be in trouble when its shield drops but id rather have this issue then having no shield or hp pool to buff the incoming damage.

next you have crazy hitting bosses. i went on a GK hunt once with GK and a blood mage hitting me i drank 32 suns in the space of 20 seconds. with out the delay i would have died in 3seconds.

Balance the bosses/mobs damage buff there defenses agil or ac amc or even health or respawns, remove sun bundles. you can then balance things a lot easier, Thats how euro worked. i think mir2 forever went down this route as well, removing stacked suns which is a bigger issue then what you have here.

im also positive for the change of 1 second per pot, but id like the mobs balanced in relation to this, esp the lower effective health pool players

Slashers hit hard aswel , if 2-3 slashers hit you , your hp is going down you cant regen fast enough ... as for OrcSorc i never understanded why they hit so hard , if you find 2 real Sorcs there and both blizz or met you or your group , it's an instant wipe ...

 

[Samuel]

The only classes that would be screwed are the new ones which you have introduced without thinking about the most important fact and that is there health pool. Wizzy Wars Taos never had issue on euro, if they have issues on here is because you have made things hit to hard.for exmple orc sourcer -500 from 1 met whats the point? it normally wipes out the sins and archers there and then.

The issue you have now with this change is that classes that dont rely on suns warriors,wizzys and taos in pvp have gained a buff from this. sure a wiz will be in trouble when its shield drops but id rather have this issue then having no shield or hp pool to buff the incoming damage.

next you have crazy hitting bosses. i went on a GK hunt once with GK and a blood mage hitting me i drank 32 suns in the space of 20 seconds. with out the delay i would have died in 3seconds.

Balance the bosses/mobs damage buff there defenses agil or ac amc or even health or respawns, remove sun bundles. you can then balance things a lot easier, Thats how euro worked. i think mir2 forever went down this route as well, removing stacked suns which is a bigger issue then what you have here.

im also positive for the change of 1 second per pot, but id like the mobs balanced in relation to this, esp the lower effective health pool players

I would be surprised if a wizard/taoist wasn't killed from a -500 hit, but sure assassins and archers are squishier than other classes by design.

GK and that entire cave is (at the moment) the highest level cave in game and designed to be difficult and force classes to work together... Working together is the main part I really want to high light because being able to sun pots takes away part of the interaction between players...

Lets take your scenario for example, GK and BM hitting you, without 32 suns you would have died...

Scenario 1 (working alone):
Use 32 suns pots, survive.

Scenario 2 (working together):
Use 20 sun pots, die, have a taoist revive you.

Scenario 3 (Working together, advanced):
Use < 20 sun pots, have a taoist cast EnergyShield on the classes that need it most and revive anyone who dies.

If your group doesn't have classes with the right skill set (and EnergyShield and Resurrection are def dropping), then you are going to find caves that we have designed to require them, more difficult.

I am not saying that there may be some mobs that need looking into (please raise threads if you think there are), I am just trying to highlight that the sun pots shouldn't replace good old fashion team work.

Sam

 

[Azz]

I would be surprised if a wizard/taoist wasn't killed from a -500 hit, but sure assassins and archers are squishier than other classes by design.

GK and that entire cave is (at the moment) the highest level cave in game and designed to be difficult and force classes to work together... Working together is the main part I really want to high light because being able to sun pots takes away part of the interaction between players...

Lets take your scenario for example, GK and BM hitting you, without 32 suns you would have died...

Scenario 1 (working alone):
Use 32 suns pots, survive.

Scenario 2 (working together):
Use 20 sun pots, die, have a taoist revive you.

Scenario 3 (Working together, advanced):
Use < 20 sun pots, have a taoist cast EnergyShield on the classes that need it most and revive anyone who dies.

If your group doesn't have classes with the right skill set (and EnergyShield and Resurrection are def dropping), then you are going to find caves that we have designed to require them, more difficult.

I am not saying that there may be some mobs that need looking into (please raise threads if you think there are), I am just trying to highlight that the sun pots shouldn't replace good old fashion team work.

Sam

Sam, please do not change the mob.

Yes some are hard, but it makes the game fun.

 

[CrazyBear...]

SmavidDavid hit the nail on the head, just remove sun pot bundles / the rate sunpot (m) are dropping.

 

[Shane/Banshee]

I would be surprised if a wizard/taoist wasn't killed from a -500 hit, but sure assassins and archers are squishier than other classes by design.

GK and that entire cave is (at the moment) the highest level cave in game and designed to be difficult and force classes to work together... Working together is the main part I really want to high light because being able to sun pots takes away part of the interaction between players...

Lets take your scenario for example, GK and BM hitting you, without 32 suns you would have died...

Scenario 1 (working alone):
Use 32 suns pots, survive.

Scenario 2 (working together):
Use 20 sun pots, die, have a taoist revive you.

Scenario 3 (Working together, advanced):
Use < 20 sun pots, have a taoist cast EnergyShield on the classes that need it most and revive anyone who dies.

If your group doesn't have classes with the right skill set (and EnergyShield and Resurrection are def dropping), then you are going to find caves that we have designed to require them, more difficult.

I am not saying that there may be some mobs that need looking into (please raise threads if you think there are), I am just trying to highlight that the sun pots shouldn't replace good old fashion team work.

Sam

taos stay at range have more amc then archers so do not die as often as you would think regarding sourcers and magic shield stops wzzys being flopped if there watching. taos also do not create agro that often either.


regarding the GK hunt i was not solo, and buffed with energy shield amc ac + a 100hp drug. GK damage is unavoidable so is a constant. i dont think you can survive this without suning every other hit on a sin or archer. If it didnt para 30% of its hits you could argue that the support classes would actually help. but it does so there chance on casting shields or healing, or even res which would be practically impossible. everytime ive seen or been to everyone but a lucky /skilled tao and 2-3 warriors survive nothing else. the cost alone in sun pots was around 6mil?

But its just my opinion. making the game less reliant on sun pots is the way forward.

 

[bayya]

]
Wow this **** just got awkward... We have been killing those bosses since the sun pot change and doing just fine thanks.
Now who's the amateur?

You and shane seem to be sayin that the only people who can kill GK and DK and OWL and EE are the highest level players.
Seein as the highest level players are the pay to win crew(mostly) why do you sound so smug about clutching the apron strings of people who don't play the game as intended? You should be embarrassed. It's another example of an unfair advantage. They are all in the same guild too. Suspicious or what?
Part of the fun of mir is that smaller groups of good player(get c10 to come back and show you or lower levels with big numbers like Apex did) can kill the same bosses as the top few who have level 3 energy shield magic booster etc etc
If only the top few can do this then the rest of us might just as well give up or go grind for weeks n weeks til can compete- no fun

 

[Azz]

You and shane seem to be sayin that the only people who can kill GK and DK and OWL and EE are the highest level players.
Seein as the highest level players are the pay to win crew(mostly) why do you sound so smug about clutching the apron strings of people who don't play the game as intended? You should be embarrassed. It's another example of an unfair advantage. They are all in the same guild too. Suspicious or what?
Part of the fun of mir is that smaller groups of good player(get c10 to come back and show you or lower levels with big numbers like Apex did) can kill the same bosses as the top few who have level 3 energy shield magic booster etc etc
If only the top few can do this then the rest of us might just as well give up or go grind for weeks n weeks til can compete- no fun

Wow I don't no where to start...

Highest levels just FYI I'm lvl45, I'm involved in 80% of the hunts to the big bosses and I do just fine.

In regards to highest lvls I.e inoob/lkira and jeras they very rarely come on the big guild hunts as they hunt and lvl. Dont get me wrong they do come on some but maybe 10%.

With the new sun pots some of the bosses are near impossible, but to me it makes it more fun.

On another point the bosses we are talking about are end game bosses, I would not expect low lvls to be killing them or even trying. Nor a small grp off 5

Soo.. Your post is bullshit, I'm not embarrassed at all

 

[ILovePie:D]

It's not fun killing bosses by walking in/out of doors.

It's not fun killing bosses by trapping them in the middle of the room with pets, and killing with ranged from an area which barely gets hit.

Yes, all of the bosses ingame are killable. If you can stand next to DemonKing and kill it as warrior and sins, with the new 1 second sunpot delay, then I applaud you. It was hard enough to do with the previous.

The current sunpot thing, its wizards who will benefit the most from it. Walk in to people, cast FF, which delivers 250-400 with a good kit. Spammable, yet you aren't able to counter this. With a wizards shield up, their damage taken is reduced by 2/3rds. So a wizard is able to stand and "tank" all other classes, hitting massive damage, and able to Sunpot peoples damage taken (not forgetting HP pot regen rate is also high).

 

[Doug]

Take sun pots out if game give evey class an extra 2000 hp give FF BLIZZARD MET STRIKE 5 min global cool downs
Delete game