In-game speed

[thedeath]

If that was the case, no one would be able to walk through, there would be no repel/dash bug and there would be no push back because they wouldn't start to walk and get canceled. (if the server confirms before movement).


Also why do you attempt to walk when disconnected?

lol trust me it's tricky (the delphi code is super super complicated in these areas)
some cases where you got pushback turned out to be situations where client and server couldnt agree on what spot was vacant, someone moved on the spot while you where moving, ....
the repel/dash bug is caused by how delphi mir clients deal with coords being out of sync. if your client somehow gets confused on what spot you're on: it try's to force-move you to the correct spot (does this without telling/showing you): stuff like dash overrides this.

dont ask me on every detail (it's been months and even with code infront of me, i wouldnt be able to fully comprehend every choice without investigation )
i'm 200% sure the files originaly waited for server confirmation before moving, not sure on what else it waited etc tho (could be it just did quick checks to confirm cant remember)

 

[ILovePie:D]

Ping on euro mir would be the deciding factor whether you'd hit someone as they are running as a warrior, like when I was downloading and my ping was 100ms+ every time someone got close enough for me to swing at them the hit probably wouldn't register, yet when I wasn't downloading and it was around 10-20ms, it was piss easy to hit someone 90% of the time.

That's the only advantage I can see ping having, not sure if it's the same here though on acem2. But regardless it's always nice to have a low ping on whatever you're playing!

 

[Blank]

This was an interest read & I signed up especially to make this pointless post.

I have a question outside of genuine server / specs & rendering/ping...
I've been out of mir for quite awhile + since Reunited which was running on old files anyway I could be a very long way behind ... Have things been improved on the speed hack detection front ? Mir2USA / Reunited while running certain accelerators the animations could made faster and therefore the gameplay was faster... and ultimately, you could be a PvP god with minimal risk of ever being detected by a GM.

 

[Koriban]

This was an interest read & I signed up especially to make this pointless post.... wish I had something more to say at this point!

I have a question outside of genuine server spec's & rendering/ping...
I've been out of mir for quite awhile + since Reunited which was running on old files anyway I could be a very long way behind ... Have things been improved on the speed hack detection front ? Mir2USA / Reunited while running certain accelerators the animations could made faster and therefore the gameplay was faster... and ultimately, you could have be a PvP god with minimal risk of ever being detected by a GM.

---------- Post Merged at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:00 PM ----------

This was an interest read & I signed up especially to make this pointless post.... wish I had something more to say at this point!

I have a question outside of genuine server spec's & rendering/ping...
I've been out of mir for quite awhile + since Reunited which was running on old files anyway I could be a very long way behind ... Have things been improved on the speed hack detection front ? Mir2USA / Reunited while running certain accelerators the animations could made faster and therefore the gameplay was faster... and ultimately, you could be a PvP god with minimal risk of ever being detected by a GM.

I'll leave Samuel to answer this one, but I'll just say this: I'll be very surprised if someone manages to make their character speed up in-game similar to old server style cheats without being detected.

 

[jez]

This was an interest read & I signed up especially to make this pointless post.

I have a question outside of genuine server / specs & rendering/ping...
I've been out of mir for quite awhile + since Reunited which was running on old files anyway I could be a very long way behind ... Have things been improved on the speed hack detection front ? Mir2USA / Reunited while running certain accelerators the animations could made faster and therefore the gameplay was faster... and ultimately, you could be a PvP god with minimal risk of ever being detected by a GM.

Hey Blank! nice to see your still around, hope your gonna come play this when it launches.
Im sure there will be a few players that try a cheat or 2, see if they can get away with it, there always is, but im sure Sam & Co have a few things up their sleeves to detect em.
See you ingame pal!

 

[Blank]

Hey Blank! nice to see your still around, hope your gonna come play this when it launches.
Im sure there will be a few players that try a cheat or 2, see if they can get away with it, there always is, but im sure Sam & Co have a few things up their sleeves to detect em.
See you ingame pal!

Hey man, long time no see... People have been bugging me to play it for awhile & I've resisted but Aldor's streams look interesting + the number of people returning has peaked my interest so I'll certainly try it out, well... I will if Samuel launches it before I die of old age anyway.

 

[Jest]

lol trust me it's tricky (the delphi code is super super complicated in these areas)
some cases where you got pushback turned out to be situations where client and server couldnt agree on what spot was vacant, someone moved on the spot while you where moving, ....
the repel/dash bug is caused by how delphi mir clients deal with coords being out of sync. if your client somehow gets confused on what spot you're on: it try's to force-move you to the correct spot (does this without telling/showing you): stuff like dash overrides this.

dont ask me on every detail (it's been months and even with code infront of me, i wouldnt be able to fully comprehend every choice without investigation )
i'm 200% sure the files originaly waited for server confirmation before moving, not sure on what else it waited etc tho (could be it just did quick checks to confirm cant remember)

Surely you would notice the delay?

 

[^G0trex]

Reading this thread is putting me off wanting to play.

You guys actually take Mir this seriously?

 

[Blank]

Reading this thread is putting me off wanting to play.

You guys actually take Mir this seriously?

Considering their's multiple people in this thread physically coding the game on a level I'll never understand & the fact they're doing this for pretty nothing..... I'd say this thread barely touches on what they see as serious, I don't know Samuel but I'm pretty sure I know thedeath (if it's the same guy I used to play with back in the day) and the fact he's been around this long shows he's quite serious about what makes mir tick.

and considering the experience most of the players have in both gameplay & bending the game/system it runs on for every little unfair advantage... you'd be pretty thankful if there is indeed caps & systems in place to stop anyone trying to exploit game in order to effectively kick your ass out of any boss room they see fit.

Hell, The first thing I was asked by a friend when I said I'd look into Chronicles is weather it was FPS capped or not.... not who's running in / what content does it have, it was basically "can I use a 1 minute tweak to my system & be better than 90% of players in the game?"

Obviously, as players we'll just play & hopefully enjoy... but I know for myself, it'll be nice to know when I get killed it's most likely going to be down to my failing/ping & not speedhacks. (which is what this thread boils down to)

 

[LionMir]

Considering their's multiple people in this thread physically coding the game on a level I'll never understand & the fact they're doing this for pretty nothing..... I'd say this thread barely touches on what they see as serious, I don't know Samuel but I'm pretty sure I know thedeath (if it's the same guy I used to play with back in the day) and the fact he's been around this long shows he's quite serious about what makes mir tick.

and considering the experience most of the players have in both gameplay & bending the game/system it runs on for every little unfair advantage... you'd be pretty thankful if there is indeed caps & systems in place to stop anyone trying to exploit game in order to effectively kick your ass out of any boss room they see fit.

Hell, The first thing I was asked by a friend when I said I'd look into Chronicles is weather it was FPS capped or not.... not who's running in / what content does it have, it was basically "can I use a 1 minute tweak to my system & be better than 90% of players in the game?"

Obviously, as players we'll just play & hopefully enjoy... but I know for myself, it'll be nice to know when I get killed it's most likely going to be down to my failing/ping & not speedhacks. (which is what this thread boils down to)

A FPS has nothing to do with cheating... so therefore a FPS cap wont stop cheats LOL

 

[^G0trex]

and considering the experience most of the players have in both gameplay & bending the game/system it runs on for every little unfair advantage...

This is what I was getting at, reading this thread is like a mind ****. However I guess its just because my play style differs from what I've been reading. Hopefully I wont be the only one not power leveling, whoring bosses and just generally having "I'm better than you" attitude.

 

[Blank]

A FPS has nothing to do with cheating... so therefore a FPS cap wont stop cheats LOL

Indeed, but that's one the most popular myths when it comes to mir.

FPS is purely how many frames are being renders per second client side, nothing to do with interacting with the server or connection latency therefore would visually affect nothing past a certain point. - but tell that to some of the tweakers.

plenty of players have always weird & wonderful things in order to boost FPS as they believe this gives them the edge until they stumble upon something that ultimately does make a difference..... It's not unusual for people to spend a couple of days formatting and installing a stripped out Windows XP OS and fiddling with drivers/applications and closing services and changing device settings or playing with virtual machines just to see slightly higher numbers.

This is what I was getting at, reading this thread is like a mind ****. However I guess its just because my play style differs from what I've been reading. Hopefully I wont be the only one not power leveling, whoring bosses and just generally having "I'm better than you" attitude.

I know how you feel, my intention is to play casually and enjoy myself ... but if I get sucked in (as I always have with mir) I'll more than likely be the next saddo who dies while gaming due to lack of movement. :P

 

[DavidShaw]

PC Specification will mainly determine how quickly/well your computer handles drawing the images etc (which is limited at 60 frames per second as this is 1: the maximum the human brain can compute and 2: what UK based monitors are limited to).

Network ping will determine how fast the messages get from the client, to the server and back to the client...

e.g. if your ping is 8ms then the following would happen:

1- Click to walk
2- Client sends walk message to server (which takes 8 ms).
3- Server computes message and responds with new cords (takes another 8ms).
4- Client receives message and draws character moving (Pc spec determines how smooth this looks).

There are other contributing factors, but this is an overview of how it works.

The best person to actually provide a detailed explanation of how this works on the AM2 files is thedeath as he spent some time looking into it.

Sam

No No No No No.

60FPS = 1 image produced every 16.6ms
1000fps = 1 image produced every 1ms

An increased FPS helps because once the last image has been produced you MUST wait 16.6ms to see whats going on.
Obviously having to only wait 1ms for the image to be produced will give you that extra 15.6ms to act.

I don't understand how people with even primary school level of reasoning can refute this?
Do you want the image now? or in another 15.6ms?
Its a simple questions with a simple answer: As soon as possible.

 

[Blank]

No No No No No.

60FPS = 1 image produced every 16.6ms
1000fps = 1 image produced every 1ms

An increased FPS helps because once the last image has been produced you MUST wait 16.6ms to see whats going on.
Obviously having to only wait 1ms for the image to be produced will give you that extra 15.6ms to act.

I don't understand how people with even primary school level of reasoning can refute this?
Do you want the image now? or in another 15.6ms?
Its a simple questions with a simple answer: As soon as possible.

I have never thought of FPS as a latency like that, but I suppose you're right.

8ms from the server, 1ms on the frame rate, 17ms on the 60hz monitor latency, and 10-20ms human latency
(46ms total)
vs
8ms from the server, 17ms on the frame rate, 17ms on the 60hz monitor latency, and 10-20 human latency.
(62ms total)

If this is correct then, in this example we have 16 milliseconds lost that don't need to be & that would be enough time for 2 human responses as opposed to just one.

human response is something we can't improve on but everything else we can.. even though a standard monitor is 60hz & the monitor only draws 60 frames per second, so I suppose those 60 frames would be "fresher" if the image 1ms ago than it would of been at 16ms ago.

I have a headache.

 

[thedeath]

heh all this talk about fps
in a way (especialy with mir): if you can artificialy raise your fps, it's likely you're also moving faster.
apple (ace) client is coded with the fps cap etc.
however the original delphi clients where general coded in infinite loops, the more fps, the more often the loop is ran / second.
so even tho it's not meant to matter (aka there are delay timers on everything), if you run the main loop 60 times / second > you get 60 chances to move, if you run the same loop 1000 times in a second> you get 1000 chances to move.

in the end even tho the fps has nothing to do with the actual speed of movement etc, if you ARTIFICALY (aka cheat) raise the fps, chances are that same trick is also messing with the timers a bit and has a high chance of making you faster then it's meant to be

 

[d1craig]

So what you are saying is you would respond to something that was 0.050 seconds better than something that was 0.075 seconds?

Just no lol.

 

[jez]

when human reaction time is so slow in comparison does it make that much diff?
16ms etc but your reaction time to what you see is wayyy slower.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/


247 average :P

 

[thedeath]

it's more about game reaction time tho: if you're running by holding down your right mouse button
the 'original' code would check button state every loop/x ms, the more the loop runs: the more chances it'll check
so even tho in theory it's set at 100ms or whatever delay, more loops = more checks, so closer to that minimum delay (we are talking ms here )

 

[Blank]

when human reaction time is so slow in comparison does it make that much diff?
16ms etc but your reaction time to what you see is wayyy slower.

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/


247 average :P

That's an easier demonstration :P while faster times would be "better" it really is just a drop in the ocean.

 

[LionMir]

No No No No No.

60FPS = 1 image produced every 16.6ms
1000fps = 1 image produced every 1ms

An increased FPS helps because once the last image has been produced you MUST wait 16.6ms to see whats going on.
Obviously having to only wait 1ms for the image to be produced will give you that extra 15.6ms to act.

I don't understand how people with even primary school level of reasoning can refute this?
Do you want the image now? or in another 15.6ms?
Its a simple questions with a simple answer: As soon as possible.

yet 95% of people have 60hz monitors so even if they have 1000fps it wont make a difference
even the best gaming monitors out there only run at 144hz with <1ms gtg
I have no idea how the extra hz you get from these monitors perform on mir, I know on league of legends and call of duty etc I find it a big difference but other people dont I mainly put that down to the response time

at the end of the day its not a cheat just a preference like choosing a mouse