It's clearly conservative as you said 'parents would complain their children are being educated and socializing with underclassed pupils' in saying this, you are saying, all disruptive children and all children who aren't as intelligent are lower class. Therefore, it is a conservative statement 'keep the lower classes away from the higher education, they don't deserve it.' is the theme of your opinion.
No. When quoting what I said, you should also read what I said. Namely I said the
parents would complain. So if I'm saying anything, I'm saying that the parents are your idea of 'conservative'. Just because I'm stating what a parent involved in such an institution might say, doesn't mean that I too would say it. I never even hinted towards who deserves the right to an education, nevermind a private one.
I think what you meant to say is that its a far-right wing or classical conservative ideal... which it is. Its my no means a Cameron/Hague ideal. But, I didn't say it anyway.
This is not a political thread so keep those opinions to the ballot boxes.
Its a thread that enquires that amongst other things, ones thoughts on the school leaving age. Its a political question because its an idea sprung directly from the executive. You don't get much more political than that.
Also, I'm willing to bet that you've not experienced what it's like to be labelled as one of the lesser intelligent pupils. I hit set three in French as yes, I was pretty bad at it. I found it pretty much impossible to claw myself back up to the second set, therefore remaining in the lower set. It's not a social problem at all. People who aren't as intelligent need alot more chances than they are given, it becomes a social problem because they aren't given chances so end up having no other option other than leaving school and going into work and if they aren't ready for that kind of commitment as such a young age they opt towards the whole benefits thing. THEN it becomes a social problem.
What I experienced in education is not relevant. I don't care not what grade someone got as to whether they should be in 6th form. I merely care what ones behaviour is like. I don't think its right that the government is going to be forcing people that otherwise wouldn't be there, to stay there where they will disrupt other pupils who genuinely want to do well. Whether these pupils do well or not is not something I am concerned about, its just the fact that they want to... and disruptive pupils will get in the way of that.
I disagree of when it becomes a social problem. Its a social problem as soon as a child (blank slate) develops the desire to disrupt classes. I want to know the causes (bad parenting, bad influences, gang alliance, etc) and to remove them. If that can't be solved then remove the children before they effect others. The current leaving age allows those bad influences to shoo at their own free will. Leaving the teaching time for the pupils with the genuine desire to be educated.
Forcing people to continue education gives them at least another 2 years to attempt to succeed, obviously that's not the only problem like I said before, when they hit bottom set, they need to be given the correct help to improve and climb the ladder again, but when you've only got a year or so to do this in. It's nigh on impossible.
No. This is not a change in the current state of affairs. People ALREADY have the chance to continue to do education either in the form of GCSE resits or A-levels. Keeping disruptive people there only serves to hinder those that wish to do well. I do not want my teacher using all the class time to tell someone to shut up etc when they could be teaching me.
You may also think 'people would not take the opportunity, they'd spend the last 2 years dossing'. We are from a generation where we have the opportunity to drop out at 16, therefore, people easily lose their motivation earlier and start making plans for a life outside of education earlier and they also get in the mindset to do so.
I couldn't care whether they were motivated or not. What I could care about is people who are disruptive in class continuing to disrupt pupils for another two years. If this wasn't a major problem I would SUPPORT the leaving age proposal. Its a good idea, and it may help some people. But with those 'disruptives' around, I want there to be a choice at 16. It prevents the prolonging of the problem and the effects on the good children.
You know I'm right Leo and you know your opinions are only valid from a marxist or a conservative point of view. People deserve to improve. Just because you and others like you have the god given right of intelligence, doesn't mean the less gifted don't deserve the right to attain an intelligence.
No. I think you are very very wrong. Do you realise what the Marxist perspective is? Because my ideal sure doesn't fit in with Marxist educational theory.
Not once, not a single time have I said, hinted or otherwise inferred that X group doesn't deserve an education. The only thing I have said with conviction, is that we shouldn't force disruptive pupils into classes with good behaviour students. It will demoralise good students, it will harm their studies, it will harm their job prospects, it will harm society, it will harm the country.
All you have done is somehow picked out the idea from my responses that I wish to stop children which are of lesser capability from attending post16 education. I've not said this, and I would be dead against it. You've grouped my perspective as conservative and Marxist (even though this would be contradictory) despite me making no reference to a particular ideology. But the fact of the matter is that further education is already available for this group and no one is going to take it away. At the moment however its a choice, and thats how I wish it to remain purely for the reason that bad behaviour pupils tend to drop out.
Just to be sure I'm going to make it absolutely 100% clear for you.
The only reason I don't wish to see enforced education up to 18 is that the behaviour of disruptive pupils will serve to take teaching time away from the good ones, and otherwise interrupt their studies.. Note no references of capability, social class, income, friendship groups, gender, regional location or anything else you may wish to dream up.
/Leo
, thus helping me out.
