Q and possibly A session with the Team

Mu online season 21 - grand opening

GimmeAKitKat

Loyal Member
Loyal Member
Jun 11, 2014
403
0
43
Learn to quote only the main paragraph and not a full page its highly annoying.

Raz, you forgot a massive point which needs answering

Why was koriban unbanned? I mean he blatantly cheated and exploited with all this evidence you said there was! I feel this should be near the top of your list.

Thanks.

Why has everybody seemed to conveniently forget that Kori admitted to cheating. No further evidence is necessary, he admitted using one macro in defence of using another. Either way, even if you believe him, he was cheating.

Everybody knows friends and pressure on Sam got him unbanned, a completely ridiculous decision, but carrying on an illogical defence when he admitted it himself just makes you look like a massive bellend.
 

CantTouchThis

LOMCN Veteran
Veteran
Dec 9, 2012
582
4
79
Youve again asked about a cap on a.speed in your OP. Just because this time round you didnt phrase it like it was in your signature, you're still asking for the same thing.

I personally havent seen where its been stated thay 25% is balanced. Also it sounds almost like you're expecting sins and warrs dc to be closely matched? I'd happily drop a few dc for lvl 3 shadow step. Hell i'll even take moonlight! You're not looking at the class as a whole, you're literally just looking at it from a 'sin toe-to-toe with a better kitted warrior' perspective.

You're right, let's consider PVE a bit more. Of all the classes, sins are the most capable of soloing bosses. Maybe we should look at 'balancimg' warriors so they're just as capable.

There's no need to be a tool and have a dig, i've tried to be civil. If i'm that biased towards warriors why would i be openly backing the push to sort the issue with the graphics on double slash? Also, pot kettle - you're brazenly biased towards sins dude.

Lastly, no one can predict the future so i'm surprised you're trying. It's impossible to see what form this 'progression' you refer to is going to take. There have been new spells announced for instance, and no one can predict what impact that will have (except you apparently).
 

HarryH

On the bandwagon
Veteran
Apr 25, 2014
1,686
9
100
I didn't consider backstab.. It will be OP as hell no doubt. The aspeed difference is all I was concerned about! However, let there be no doubt: warriors CAN solo colossus, omaking, darkdevil.
 

Jicaa

Pooslice
Golden Oldie
Jul 9, 2003
2,386
36
184
It was stated at the start of the server.

Warrior - High def/hp, average ST/AoE damage
Sin - High ST damage, average def/hp
Wizard - High AoE damage, average ST damage, low def/hp
Archer - High ST damage, average AoE damage, low hp/average def
Taoist - just average across the board really

Everything they announced at the start of the server is completely wrong.
 

CitRix

Dedicated Member
Dedicated Member
May 17, 2014
169
0
42
Did anyone consider the reason sins are slow is because aspeed 8 is bugged, thus causing problems with the Haste spell it self? Currently warriors are speed capped at aspeed 7, there's no dps gained at aspeed8.

Perhaps it's the fact sins are working at speed7 that's causing problems with the graphics
 

HarryH

On the bandwagon
Veteran
Apr 25, 2014
1,686
9
100
It's the doubleslash animation being to slow which means they only achieve aspeed 7.

I don't know where kori is getting his evidence for aspeed 8 not existing but I tested on the trainer with lilcooldude,

an assassin hits roughly 178 per minute, an aspeed 8 warrior did 192 a minute. An aspeed 7 warrior did about 178 per minute also.
 

CitRix

Dedicated Member
Dedicated Member
May 17, 2014
169
0
42
I tested speed 7 and speed 8 when I had luck7 and both had exactly the same damage over 30 seconds
 

HarryH

On the bandwagon
Veteran
Apr 25, 2014
1,686
9
100
Try it again.. 30 seconds is a very small range. With aspeed 7/8 difference being roughly 5-8% DPS that would be 1.5-2 seconds difference in damage which will show very little.
 

CitRix

Dedicated Member
Dedicated Member
May 17, 2014
169
0
42
No Harry you're not listening, over 30 seconds with luck7 you will see a damage variant of as little as 1, the variation between speed 7 and speed 8 is 0, you gain no speed after 7.
 

CantTouchThis

LOMCN Veteran
Veteran
Dec 9, 2012
582
4
79
Not easily though harry. A good example is OK - a 43 sin with logans/boms and a tiger necky can comfortably solo OK, but a 43 warr with just SOWG and tiger wouldnt be able to.

I do think backstab could be an interesting one. Also ghost, which renders sins completely invisible even to players. Combine that with SS and they'll be lethal.

I think if double slash is fixed this will have a greater impact than people realise and it would make sense to fix this and let it bed in first before we start changing loads of other things too.
 

HarryH

On the bandwagon
Veteran
Apr 25, 2014
1,686
9
100
I think there should be more testing on speed 7/speed 8 because lastnight with LCD and when I tested it personally there was a clear difference between speed 7 and speed 8. Anyway a speed '7' warrior then if we shall call it that, is still significantly faster than a 'speed 7' assassin.
 

Razarus

Sour Sally
Veteran
Dec 6, 2013
1,470
19
100
Youve again asked about a cap on a.speed in your OP. Just because this time round you didnt phrase it like it was in your signature, you're still asking for the same thing.

Simply asking what the team have decided after "looking into it" there was never a Yes or No.
I could have just bumped 6 previous threads to ask for answers individually.. or put all the questions in one place in an attempt to not spam the forum with old threads and get a number of answers in one go.

Also it sounds almost like you're expecting sins and warrs dc to be closely matched?,
Not at all, Warriors should have a much higher DC but not if they are going to hit at the same speed as a sin.

you're literally just looking at it from a 'sin toe-to-toe with a better kitted warrior' perspective.
Not at all, I'm not even looking at it from a toe to toe perspective, or even a pvp one.

You're right, let's consider PVE a bit more. Of all the classes, sins are the most capable of soloing bosses. Maybe we should look at 'balancimg' warriors so they're just as capable.
If you spec +5 PA im sure you will find the bosses you struggle with a lot easier.

Lastly, no one can predict the future so i'm surprised you're trying. It's impossible to see what form this 'progression' you refer to is going to take. There have been new spells announced for instance, and no one can predict what impact that will have (except you apparently).
Lets predict the future together then.
As items get higher level.. they have more AC do they not?
As mobs get higher level they have more AC do they not?
Foreseeing that Sins damage will take a nerf at each +1 AC on mob or item in comparrison to Warriors IGNORE AC consta cast aspeed 8 spell?

This is why I ASK if the team have considered changing pro field to a fixed number instead of a percent. percentages are constantly growing buffs, fixed amounts are well fixed..
The same applies to rage. Every 1DC will always be worth 1.2ish. This is an ever growing buff. Im looking ahead trying to preempt a potential flaw by asking if it has been considered.
Perhaps it has and that's how the team want it to be. where warriors have double the DC as a sin with the same attack speed.

a simple projection using the current progress on items would be. *using the 33% increase lilcoole added from 43-50 weaps*

Edit, i read 33% increase on items it wasn't actually 33% it was wars 26% sins 18%

Warr -
6-50 (60 inc Rage)
5-63 (76 inc Rage)
X-80 (97 inc Rage)
X-100 (121 inc Rage)

Sin -
14-40
15-47
X-55
X-65

As you can see the gap in class increases..
War have -
25% more
34% more
45% more
53% more

With rage
50% more
61% more
76% more
86% more


Now take into account that AC also increases per item. and that warriors get 29% on top.
An assassin does not ignore armor like a warrior does. ( i'm more interested in the mobs tbh but without mob stats I cant prove that the inflation of stats works against sins unless mobs AC does not increase because whats the point? wars ignore it anyway.

Just a quick example
Steel Armour 20 AC (26 with pro)

so now you get assassin dealing 50-86% less damage
They also have to penetrate the AC or the mob or player reducing said damage by X
You soon see that IF the stats progress the way they are it will soon be very unbalanced.
Thus I simply ASK, have they considered these factors.
 
Last edited:

CitRix

Dedicated Member
Dedicated Member
May 17, 2014
169
0
42
I agree Harry but what I'm saying is perhaps it's the fact speed 8 isn't working that's messing sin speed up, they will have been designed to run at speed 8 due to Haste, not speed 7.
 

HarryH

On the bandwagon
Veteran
Apr 25, 2014
1,686
9
100
I agree Harry but what I'm saying is perhaps it's the fact speed 8 isn't working that's messing sin speed up, they will have been designed to run at speed 8 due to Haste, not speed 7.

That would still put both classes on speed 7, assassins are currently about speed 6 if we take you statement of 7 being 'max'.
 

CitRix

Dedicated Member
Dedicated Member
May 17, 2014
169
0
42
But if the sin graphics were designed for speed 6 and 8 due to Haste, it could be speed 7 that's causing the problem, maybe the graphic was never designed to run at speed 7..

I'm no coder and I may well be wrong, it's just a thought
 

Razarus

Sour Sally
Veteran
Dec 6, 2013
1,470
19
100
I agree Harry but what I'm saying is perhaps it's the fact speed 8 isn't working that's messing sin speed up, they will have been designed to run at speed 8 due to Haste, not speed 7.

one of the banned cheats, hercules i think, said he tried to use his attack speed cheats on the sin but it didn't work because regardless of how fast he set it the animation was still slow.
not sure how relevant that is because it was brought up and "fixed" a long time ago.
obviously not.
 

HarryH

On the bandwagon
Veteran
Apr 25, 2014
1,686
9
100
Its just the animation on the doubleslash that is too slow to allow speed 8 to occur on an assassin. LCD was with me lastnight he tweaked the animation speed and the assassin hit speed 8 perfectly.
 

CantTouchThis

LOMCN Veteran
Veteran
Dec 9, 2012
582
4
79
Christ. Im on a phone so i'll keep it short.

PA is **** on here. Also if warrs spec PA they lose attack speed. Same reason most cant spec slow and PA. If only there was a class that could have all 3 at once...

Sins have an agil spell and can spec agil which has been proven to be highly effective. Again, i'd swap pro field for agil any day because whats better than reducing the damage from a melee hit by 12-ish (max)? Avoiding half or more of the hits completely. I suggest you invest in some agil.

Seriously, get tori to demonstrate his agil kit to you sometime, which he also happens to be able to wear at the same time as his slow5 kit. Ive tried fighting him in it and suffice it to say i'm yet to come out on top after one of these encounters. In fact he's cost me several stones, including a holy a couple of weeks ago :(
 

Razarus

Sour Sally
Veteran
Dec 6, 2013
1,470
19
100
Christ. Im on a phone so i'll keep it short.

PA is **** on here. Also if warrs spec PA they lose attack speed. Same reason most cant spec slow and PA. If only there was a class that could have all 3 at once...

Sins have an agil spell and can spec agil which has been proven to be highly effective. Again, i'd swap pro field for agil any day because whats better than reducing the damage from a melee hit by 12-ish (max)? Avoiding half or more of the hits completely. I suggest you invest in some agil.

Seriously, get tori to demonstrate his agil kit to you sometime, which he also happens to be able to wear at the same time as his slow5 kit. Ive tried fighting him in it and suffice it to say i'm yet to come out on top after one of these encounters. In fact he's cost me several stones, including a holy a couple of weeks ago :(

I have agil 35kit, I understand that agil is a defense for pvp, I know the game mechanics. this is not just about pvp.

you say pro field negates 12ish damage, that 12ish damage will grow greater and greater with every ac item you gain- as items progress that ac will be higher. do keep up.

here's a question for you.

Do you think Warriors should kill single target mobs FASTER than a Sin, given that the Sin was advertised as the highest single target damage melee class?
Because at the moment, They Can and Do.
 

CitRix

Dedicated Member
Dedicated Member
May 17, 2014
169
0
42
You've no way of knowing for sure if they hit speed 8 or speed 7, you say sins are currently 1 speed behind warriors, they could be running at speed 6 because doubleslash was never designed to run at 7. They need to fix speed 8 and see what happens before they start playing with graphic speeds