- Feb 8, 2011
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He has never been able to do this... Unless they are in a guild war/subak war (which is a bug I missed)... removing wiz lock on players was one of the first things we looked into before opening the server.
Sam
[Suggestions] the real issues with warriors?
- Thread starter Samuel
- Start date
He has never been able to do this... Unless they are in a guild war/subak war (which is a bug I missed)... removing wiz lock on players was one of the first things we looked into before opening the server.
Sam
The hp advantage you speak of Sam needs to be effective hp. With all the hp you can get five string hp runes and bra armor the hp gap is smaller (wiz will have 500 hp to the wars 1000 hp) this is only double rather than the 4x that would be base. You add in shield and a wiz can tank a luck+6 70 dc warrior while killing him with FF ( an aoe damage skill that requires no targeting or risk). This plus faster skill castin and the ability to hit warriors while running np ends in a tough go for warriors.
Leveling. Tried two warrior BA, it's laughable. With 2 warriors lvl 45 with money invested in gear we could do 9-10 mil exp per hour. Using a bunch of dura. Wiz with no gear investment and lvl 40 can do 20 mil per hour solo(that's double! No gear no dura lvl 40 solo)then it just gets worse from there. And that's just TU. 2 FF wiz may be even worse. At lvl 48/49 tu becomes 40 mil(4times that of a war) no dura no gear.
"Faster" lvling is if one class can lvl 10-20% faster than others. 200%-400% faster does not seem balanced.
Note: I have not personally played tao on this server so cannot speak to balance there, but I have played both wiz and war.
Leveling. Tried two warrior BA, it's laughable. With 2 warriors lvl 45 with money invested in gear we could do 9-10 mil exp per hour. Using a bunch of dura. Wiz with no gear investment and lvl 40 can do 20 mil per hour solo(that's double! No gear no dura lvl 40 solo)then it just gets worse from there. And that's just TU. 2 FF wiz may be even worse. At lvl 48/49 tu becomes 40 mil(4times that of a war) no dura no gear.
"Faster" lvling is if one class can lvl 10-20% faster than others. 200%-400% faster does not seem balanced.
Note: I have not personally played tao on this server so cannot speak to balance there, but I have played both wiz and war.
Quick test
Level 48 77DC (i refuse to level in good kit) Used Profield but not rage due to alot of members don't have rage.
20 minuets each place.
Vipers-
Start- 120 Medium MP.
End- 26MP
Used-94MP
Percentage Start - 64.58%
End- 65.66%
PT Kingroom-
Start- 120 Medium MP.
End- 14MP
Used 106MP
Percentage start- 66.01%
End-66.58%
Used a hell of a lot more HP in PT, but in PT pots drop loads more, so really unlike vipers you could stay in PT until you need to repair, of whenever you get bored, where as vipers, it's an inevitable TT sooner than later due to no pots.
Didn't pick pots up, as they dropped (only like 3 did in vipers lol) But may try again later picking pots up to see how many im left with.
Warrior's are fine, problem is with Wiz/Tao can hit Wars while running and Meteor Strike + Blizzard are over powered and make it to use shift to go to target even if there sabuk or guild war plz
- Feb 8, 2011
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I don't think I mentioned HP, but your right it plays a massive role in the issue here.
Skill changes won't change, so we need to look at improving warriors instead of changing tao/wizards.
Wizards solo still die faster than warriors solo, regardless of shield + added hp, so I don't see how a wizard solo (unless TU'ing) can do double what 2 BA'ing warriors can do.
What I would like to see is 2 Warriors doing exactly half of what 2 wizzards can do in terms of a total exp hunt.
Sam
Hey Sam could you try a test? Grab a war with BDA tank 1 hard hitting boss using just hp pots. Then grab a wiz with BDA maybe some hp runes or five string and decent MC with lvl 3 shield an just use hp pots and see which can tank for longer(recasting shield of course). This would give you a good idea if warriors really are "alot" tankier than wiz.
Also a big issue is not aoe it's tu lvling speed vs any possible leveling a warrior can do. Plus dura and gear here.
I can show you on my wiz/war sam.
Wiz, TU exp vs war in pb exp. I can't show any ff or higher skill comparisons though.
Also I will try to test magic shield to see how much effective hp it adds just so everyone has info. Will take a bit tho as I don't have high luck.
Also I did try BA with Ziiid but it is much much slower than single target for us. Also to consider is luring time with BA and the huge dura hit from archers/winged if your trying in pb. Vipers have a short stun when they hit you which reduces your damage alot. One by one is much faster than aoe.
Wiz, TU exp vs war in pb exp. I can't show any ff or higher skill comparisons though.
Also I will try to test magic shield to see how much effective hp it adds just so everyone has info. Will take a bit tho as I don't have high luck.
Also I did try BA with Ziiid but it is much much slower than single target for us. Also to consider is luring time with BA and the huge dura hit from archers/winged if your trying in pb. Vipers have a short stun when they hit you which reduces your damage alot. One by one is much faster than aoe.
- Feb 8, 2011
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OK, so for a fair comparison the warrior would also require health runes and a 5 string set and yes the warrior will be tankier, was a pretty silly comparison.
War with BDA vs Wiz with BDA = War has a natural tankier ability, granted 5String is focused a wizard's, but then the amount of BDA's dropped was due to an error with a particular boss's drop file.
As for dura's, I will not spend my time in this area, warriors have always spent more dura as they are a melee class.
Sam
- Nov 7, 2007
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The issue here is being hit by wiz/tao and not standing a chance getting close to them so the only way to fix this if you lower the walk step after being hit by 1.5x so warriors are able to run quicker after being hit, it's ridiculously overpowered right? well that what impact the cast time did. But that's only Fliching, still not took into consideration 1.5x more damage they are dealing, changing cast time really messed a lot of things up.
Changing skills, runes, items... nothing here will balance it lol.
Changing skills, runes, items... nothing here will balance it lol.
Reguarding pvp, remove the chance to lock....... It's simple as that, I'm not a slow player, but yet pretty much every skill a Tao/wiz casts hits me, single target skills, when they start spamming ice storm with it locking on and clone/pets it's impossible, you say this is only the case from guild wars/sabuk, surly this is fixable? The only way to stop a war running from running is to use and aim an aoe skill in the correct place, if the war is faster then caster the war has a chance of missing more due to lag etc, and the same goes for the wiz being faster.
Did you test is or just guessing. Five string set is a wizard set, saying the warrior would need to use it for a fair comparison doesn't make sense. Unless you add a warrior set with 30% more hp
.Will add a suggestion post when I have a sec.
this is more like the never ending story
happy to see lomcn coming back to life but...
i haven't been playing except for a wiz lvl 19 so i guess i can't speak anything smart about the issue.. but it looks to me like the problem here is people feel things are unbalanced and i guess if they feel so they MUST have played both roles.. whilist maybe it isn't the same for who is there everything is fine.
happy to see lomcn coming back to life but...
i haven't been playing except for a wiz lvl 19 so i guess i can't speak anything smart about the issue.. but it looks to me like the problem here is people feel things are unbalanced and i guess if they feel so they MUST have played both roles.. whilist maybe it isn't the same for who is there everything is fine.
Five String set still gives wiz stats ontop of 30% hp. Warriors would never wear it or if they did would be ineffective. It is absolutely fair to compare it vs warrior without. Hp runes agreed, do not need to include them.
The real culprit is shield on top of the hp bonuses. Thats why I wanted to test to see effects of luck and the amount absorbed.
Ultimately unless there is some effect of luck on magic shield warriors are just behind in items and future skills as far as being able to kill wiz.
Effective hp is stats + health + skills to see how long you will live. Just merely looking at hp and saying a war will live longer is not a reasonable comparison. Again it will likely just be due to items unless luck is a factor somehow in shield.
The real culprit is shield on top of the hp bonuses. Thats why I wanted to test to see effects of luck and the amount absorbed.
Ultimately unless there is some effect of luck on magic shield warriors are just behind in items and future skills as far as being able to kill wiz.
Effective hp is stats + health + skills to see how long you will live. Just merely looking at hp and saying a war will live longer is not a reasonable comparison. Again it will likely just be due to items unless luck is a factor somehow in shield.
Some sort of dodge passive skill would be good as mentioned previously due to the increased speed of casting here for wiz/taos.
As for leveling that was always dealt with by having high magic resistant areas that wiz/taos couldnt keep up with the warrior kill rate/tanking.
As for leveling that was always dealt with by having high magic resistant areas that wiz/taos couldnt keep up with the warrior kill rate/tanking.
So waited all day at work to make a post about this just to get it right and go over everything on my mind about war issues i have.... Don't hate me to much yer?
So to start with
Bingo all round, Wars are lacking in some area's but are not that far behind all in all, tho we have alot of vocal moaners and people that are used to playing the dom class that arn't now.
Next is my opinion on skills and what could be changed to make them better, FYI i have a good memory so went trolling Sam... sorry again
Slaying
Correct its a pain even more so when useing CHM to randomly have mir go and just hit one of the 8 mobs around you, sometimes two or three times in a row and it normally leads to alot of pain.
Half right, it does not override FS but it DOES override TDB, can test this on a trainer easy to see yourself, even with a TDB charge you might still randomly throw out a slaying, which isn't a big issue untill you account how much mana is wasted by wars on a hunt down to this RNG.
Twin Drake Blade
Yup i wnet there... i know you hate this skill as much as we love it but this is a simple question/comment can we get it changed back to being able to hold the button down? all the change did was mean we now have to keep hammering a key every second and loss alittle mana to random slayings its not change the ammount we use TDB or the speed at which we use it.
But yes you can tell me to go and die if ya like given the pain this skill has given you.
Entrapment
After the bug fix to stop it pulling full lines of para'ed mobs this skill went from being a wars wet dream to a pointless waste of mana, its so unreliable now its not worth the mana to use i'll just body pull or run off to pull a cast away from a group of mobs its in.
Flaming Sword
It might just be me but this skill sometimes seems to missfire, takes the charge but does not use flamesword, might just be me tho has anyone else seen this?
Cross Half Moon
This skill i find to be useless, the damage in for the damage out is just to out of balance, i'll more then likely run off and re-pull or Lionroar the mobs if i can than use CHM to kill them, it fact the only place i use this is ST7th to kill bugbats.
Blade Avalanche
A great skill and the cost is worth it (hits 9 targets, you hit all 9 and the damage from it is well above a TDB hit for 5 more mana at level 3) but the skill really isn't a good fit for wars as pointed out by the time you make a lure to use it to its full affectiveness and in a good area you could have just killed them one by one faster. That being said if you find a premade lure of none casters its insanly good.
That being said if you up CHM/BA damage i can't see them being used that much unless you re-make the skill some how to a point. Wars kill one by one... Thats what we do its what we are good at.
Just a few of the things on my mind about the class and skills.
So to start with
Bingo all round, Wars are lacking in some area's but are not that far behind all in all, tho we have alot of vocal moaners and people that are used to playing the dom class that arn't now.
Next is my opinion on skills and what could be changed to make them better, FYI i have a good memory so went trolling Sam... sorry again
Slaying
Correct its a pain even more so when useing CHM to randomly have mir go and just hit one of the 8 mobs around you, sometimes two or three times in a row and it normally leads to alot of pain.
Half right, it does not override FS but it DOES override TDB, can test this on a trainer easy to see yourself, even with a TDB charge you might still randomly throw out a slaying, which isn't a big issue untill you account how much mana is wasted by wars on a hunt down to this RNG.
Twin Drake Blade
Yup i wnet there... i know you hate this skill as much as we love it but this is a simple question/comment can we get it changed back to being able to hold the button down? all the change did was mean we now have to keep hammering a key every second and loss alittle mana to random slayings its not change the ammount we use TDB or the speed at which we use it.
But yes you can tell me to go and die if ya like given the pain this skill has given you.
Entrapment
After the bug fix to stop it pulling full lines of para'ed mobs this skill went from being a wars wet dream to a pointless waste of mana, its so unreliable now its not worth the mana to use i'll just body pull or run off to pull a cast away from a group of mobs its in.
Flaming Sword
It might just be me but this skill sometimes seems to missfire, takes the charge but does not use flamesword, might just be me tho has anyone else seen this?
Cross Half Moon
This skill i find to be useless, the damage in for the damage out is just to out of balance, i'll more then likely run off and re-pull or Lionroar the mobs if i can than use CHM to kill them, it fact the only place i use this is ST7th to kill bugbats.
This could work, turning it into a form of war T-storm but i really don't see you doing this as its pushing to far into wiz land.
Blade Avalanche
A great skill and the cost is worth it (hits 9 targets, you hit all 9 and the damage from it is well above a TDB hit for 5 more mana at level 3) but the skill really isn't a good fit for wars as pointed out by the time you make a lure to use it to its full affectiveness and in a good area you could have just killed them one by one faster. That being said if you find a premade lure of none casters its insanly good.
That being said if you up CHM/BA damage i can't see them being used that much unless you re-make the skill some how to a point. Wars kill one by one... Thats what we do its what we are good at.
Just a few of the things on my mind about the class and skills.