Wizard Class

[Knotty]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Well been on here about a month now as a wizard, and most my thoughts mirror people so far but ill add my thoughts even though they might be the same or similar.

My main beef at the moment is if i only have and hour to play (even two is pushing it) there really isnt many immediate options, taming takes to long especially for anything better than tongs, red/brown frogs take 30 mins - 1 hour to gather up not counting lvling them etc.
And even then a lag out (granted sometimes its my internets fault not the servers problem or being 1 hit killed ruins that but ill get into that in a minute)
You can't go solo many bosses without pets other than maybe a ghoul king et or web, tho i do think i could solo k/s face to face but haven't tried it.
T/sn you have to find a partner etc which all takes time so what does that leave? not a hell of a lot.

Taming in general, i could deal with the whole taming effort if by the time you get the five the first one wasn't starting to untame, starts to feel every 10 minutes another one starts to go, double the tame time would certainly help, or more of the good tamable mobs in caves so it goes quicker.

T bolt - very weak barely even use it if i can lightning something which isnt always cost effective mp wise, a slight buff would be good.

Frost crunch - certainly needs a buff, id be happy with either higher strength and current freezing chance or same strength and higher freezing chance (at least that could lead to a follow up lightening hit)

Lightening - absolutely fine the way it is

T storm - again pretty happy with this in general

firewall - dont think its too far off, slight buff would be good, wouldn't even mind if it had mp cost upped to compensate for that.

Magic shield - at lvl 3 its very poor on here, the fact at lvl 41 a black maggot can hit me 3 times and break it is terrible, im not certain how it works if its mc based or what (maybe xele can tell is how it is with his mc) but it certainly needs to be breaking less, time it lasts would be fine based on how long it lasts if i dont take a hit

Turn undead - not got it to lvl 3 yet but given how popular it is for lvling i think its probably fine.

ice storm - i dont even use this for anything other than luring mobs off guild mates

wont comment on flame disruptor, mirroring etc as i dont have these skills yet

PvP is a joke for a wiz, nothing does any real damage one on one, christ even an archer 1 hit me the other day wiping out my hard earned pets before i even seen him coming which was hugely annoying.
I've not been one for boosting a wiz hp but that does make me question the balance of archers to the other classes as i've never even had a warrior 2 hit me,

all in all i'm fed up with my wiz, if i had chance to transfer exp earned onto a new character i would do it atm, i wouldnt say everything needs tweaked or we could be the over powered class but picking and choosing a good balance i think should be a priority sooner rather than later, I'd be more than happy to spend hours helping test things on a test server if required.

 

[deano13]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Can we get retards like this who clearly have never thoroughly played a wizard on this server off this thread?

Same **** happened on the assassin thread, people commenting and have not ever played the class, can only hope the team dnt listen to them.

 

[Follower]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

I gave up playing my wizard. Mampi and Falk have both raised valid points (not just in this thread) since the start of the server.

The cast speed reduction was the first step forward, I will not be playing the wiz any higher than 30 on this server as there really is no point. (Yes I have played a wiz before also, 43 on euro + various other servers over the years).

 

[Raider]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

So lets start, without bragging, I am hitting 85mc with buffs, if I had the equivalent gear but on a Warrior without rage, I would get 115 DC, that is just to put my kit into perspective for other classes that may not play a wizard. Don't you think its a little insane that even with that level of gear I struggle versus a lot of mid-high tier bosses on my own, where as my counter parts can do them easily. The only way that I will be able to upgrade my gear after I finish gemming my rings +3 and getting a 3 slot belt, would be to get gemmed Mir items, heaven armour, or some silly slotted items (not including weapon - waiting for refines).

PVE
The only real way I can see wizards being able to return to a state where they are capable solo is to remove the mob AI, I can of course devise some clever ways to kill bosses like I do with ZT solo - providing I even have enough pots upon reaching KR due to the high mana cost of everything. But the effort it requires far out weighs the reward. I can see why the mob AI was needed at the start of the server but now the AI only prevents wizards from doing the simplest of bosses and none of the other classes.

Group hunting at the bigger bosses such as OrcWarlord and EvilMir we have very important roles and are actually needed for the boss, so no complaints about high level group areas for me as of yet.

I have seen people complaining about wizard levelling and that TU is the only viable option for levelling, while TU maybe good and require no kit, its very expensive, a simple fix though if the GM's dislike this levelling method would be to lower the number of archers in BDD ghoul room, or scatter them around the room so they don't spawn in the same place all the time.

I can confirm the world opens up to you with more MC and more places to level become apparent. PB is decent even though it is slower than ghoul room, its cheap and the exp isn't that horrible, biggest problem is the ranged mobs.

The best levelling area once you have MC is vipers, infinite pots which means you can sustain there for 10+hours at a time, usually end the hunt with 5benes+ and a few WGO's so you are making a bit of cash too. The exp surpasses ghoul room, especially if you take into consideration re potting/fights. The down side to vipers being that you need a map to get in, but once you have MC this is the place to level.

The 4th levelling option is Thunder storming in a group, PT is the main area that people go for this and its very effective for what it is, however I feel the same as a lot of wizards about ZT/BDD being forgotten due to the high HP on mobs and being unable to stun Whiteboars. It would be great if these could open up as viable options again, I do want to note that Tstorm scales really well with MC and that I haven't tried it in my current kit - mainly due to not wanting to get my durability smashed by Bdd archers.

PVP
I guess I don't feel a lot of the problems that most Wizards feel in PvP since I can actually pack a small punch when I land a hit, however tiger neck stops that a lot of the time, if you can not land consecutive hits, you will never kill anyone. Wizards are extremely fragile (can be 1 hit by all the other classes except for tao which just requires green poison + deva to deal with you) and do not have the damage to reflect that.

Its a careful balancing act, I am really un-sure what you can do for Wizards right now in pvp, as long as tiger necks exist they will always have this problem, I am also not ignorant enough to ignore the fact that if tiger necks were not working it would be just as much hell for a wizard as any other classes trying to deal with archers. Maybe buffing wizards damage isn't the way to go, maybe other classes should be scaled back. At this very moment I don't know how to fix them in PvP but if I have any ideas I'll be sure to post them, at the moment I feel like a glorified support in PvP.

Spells
Not too much I can say about skills other than scale back the MP cost on all skills except for TU. The reason I don't want to call for damage buffs to skills at the moment is I mainly want to see BabyHacks reply about the Mob AI and Tiger necks, I believe if we could fix these the damage would not need to go up.

/Xele

 

[OoOoOo24]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

I got to lvl 31 on my wiz on this server and decided to re roll a warrior. It just got too slow and ****. Frost Crunch should be top of the list for wiz buffs imo, I was so excited to get this skill as it's like one of the wizards most important. But the dmg is just terribly bad, against any target. living, dead or pvp. As for PvP I believe if you are a decent enough wizard you can do just fine in PvP (considering you dont get surprize attacked by a high dmg warr or sin) <br>I lost to a wizard really badly on my warrior, which made me see that if played right wizards can be awesome

 

[rainstone]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

The average MC for most of Wiz is about 40.
Please create some room for us.

So lets start, without bragging, I am hitting 85mc with buffs, if I had the equivalent gear but on a Warrior without rage, I would get 115 DC, that is just to put my kit into perspective for other classes that may not play a wizard. Don't you think its a little insane that even with that level of gear I struggle versus a lot of mid-high tier bosses on my own, where as my counter parts can do them easily. The only way that I will be able to upgrade my gear after I finish gemming my rings +3 and getting a 3 slot belt, would be to get gemmed Mir items, heaven armour, or some silly slotted items (not including weapon - waiting for refines).

PVE
The only real way I can see wizards being able to return to a state where they are capable solo is to remove the mob AI, I can of course devise some clever ways to kill bosses like I do with ZT solo - providing I even have enough pots upon reaching KR due to the high mana cost of everything. But the effort it requires far out weighs the reward. I can see why the mob AI was needed at the start of the server but now the AI only prevents wizards from doing the simplest of bosses and none of the other classes.

Group hunting at the bigger bosses such as OrcWarlord and EvilMir we have very important roles and are actually needed for the boss, so no complaints about high level group areas for me as of yet.

I have seen people complaining about wizard levelling and that TU is the only viable option for levelling, while TU maybe good and require no kit, its very expensive, a simple fix though if the GM's dislike this levelling method would be to lower the number of archers in BDD ghoul room, or scatter them around the room so they don't spawn in the same place all the time.

I can confirm the world opens up to you with more MC and more places to level become apparent. PB is decent even though it is slower than ghoul room, its cheap and the exp isn't that horrible, biggest problem is the ranged mobs.

The best levelling area once you have MC is vipers, infinite pots which means you can sustain there for 10+hours at a time, usually end the hunt with 5benes+ and a few WGO's so you are making a bit of cash too. The exp surpasses ghoul room, especially if you take into consideration re potting/fights. The down side to vipers being that you need a map to get in, but once you have MC this is the place to level.

The 4th levelling option is Thunder storming in a group, PT is the main area that people go for this and its very effective for what it is, however I feel the same as a lot of wizards about ZT/BDD being forgotten due to the high HP on mobs and being unable to stun Whiteboars. It would be great if these could open up as viable options again, I do want to note that Tstorm scales really well with MC and that I haven't tried it in my current kit - mainly due to not wanting to get my durability smashed by Bdd archers.

PVP
I guess I don't feel a lot of the problems that most Wizards feel in PvP since I can actually pack a small punch when I land a hit, however tiger neck stops that a lot of the time, if you can not land consecutive hits, you will never kill anyone. Wizards are extremely fragile (can be 1 hit by all the other classes except for tao which just requires green poison + deva to deal with you) and do not have the damage to reflect that.

Its a careful balancing act, I am really un-sure what you can do for Wizards right now in pvp, as long as tiger necks exist they will always have this problem, I am also not ignorant enough to ignore the fact that if tiger necks were not working it would be just as much hell for a wizard as any other classes trying to deal with archers. Maybe buffing wizards damage isn't the way to go, maybe other classes should be scaled back. At this very moment I don't know how to fix them in PvP but if I have any ideas I'll be sure to post them, at the moment I feel like a glorified support in PvP.

Spells
Not too much I can say about skills other than scale back the MP cost on all skills except for TU. The reason I don't want to call for damage buffs to skills at the moment is I mainly want to see BabyHacks reply about the Mob AI and Tiger necks, I believe if we could fix these the damage would not need to go up.

/Xele

 

[Raider]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

The average MC for most of Wiz is about 40.
Please create some room for us.

I do take that into consideration, just confirming levelling gets better with more MC and more areas become avaliable to you to hunt in. I believe wizards with 40MC should be the weakest class but as they approach end game gear MC they should over take the other classes.

/Xele

 

[Paloma]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

. the usercount we all know has been suffering, but i wonder if there is any corrolation to players leaving and classes becomning more/less frequently used? im not suggesting its all wizards quitting, and would in fact say that its most likely an even split of classes leaving - which means a focus on class changes / balance is probably looking in the wrong direction for the more immediate future.

Your post has many good points.
People I know who have left say it was mostly drops and feeling of getting nowhere combined with the cheat hax exploiting that looked to be happening, plus the aggressiveness plus the idea that some had more influence than others and the micro management going on. The team want you all to fight a lot at SW and OKS because we think thats what you want when clearly the early survey showed that it wasnt what most people played for.
Changing the classes balance may not be they way to go. They are dealing with the drops which will help far more than making wizards the same as they ever were.

---------- Post Merged at 10:53 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:48 AM ----------

Why should wizards be one of the only classes who can't solo KS properly?/Xele

Karma? Maybe.
Wiz had it easy for years n years now it isnt such a breeze. Its still easy just not as easy as it used to be.
Mana cost, change the TU ghoul room with spawns or luck or something and a light buff to shield only. Good suggestions

 

[ILovePie:D]

Any GM comment on this class and people's comments?

 

[TheMasterGee]

Xele's post is a good one tbh. Every aged wiz is likely to do things a little different and you tend to adapt to how each server is setup (e.g. I preferred Lightning on PB to Firewall)

TS I've always regarded as a nice group wiz spell, but never really liked it on any server.

I tend to find with threads like this that alot of players don't try the many variations and are too quick to dismiss areas and spells as being too slow or you can't pvp with them. And they don't think they can make it to remote places when they die once.

Other than that, too many hosters tamper with the spells. They tamper with them, then mobs' attributes, then mob amounts, then drops, blah blah blah.

.. then players complain.

 

[d1craig]

skills/pets should not have a primary function of flinching targets.

 

[omenking]

I recently rerolled from being a Taoist (39) to a Wizard (41) and I've come to realise how bad Wizards have it, I did think to myself when I saw all of these Wizard posts, surely it can't be that bad? But it really is so if you don't play a Wizard you really can't have a say!

I'm mostly finding myself soloing most of the time due to friends having quit or waiting for Patch 2.0 to come out but it's just not that easy like it is for other classes.
Yes we're "kings/queens" of levelling but we have to rely on another Wizard and with the user count hovering around 200 most nights I'm finding it harder and harder to find another Wizard to level with simply because most Wizards have quit/rerolled.
So we're only the fastest levellers if we have a partner to TS/TU with and even that limits us to PT 3rd and BDD Ghoul room, not much variation is there? It soon becomes very dull and boring constantly going to the same two places because that's where we're forced to go.

At level 40 I went to BDD Ghoul room to solo TU Archers, due to the success rate being very poor at that level (baring in mind it's level 3) I found myself tting every 15 - 20 minutes to restock up on pots.
In total I spent ~900k in one sitting to do 50% to get from 39% to 89%, I did the rest in PSC farming gold because I had run out levelling in BDD Ghoul room.
I know what you're probably thinking, "Why go in there solo TUing at level 40 when the success rate is low at that level?". Well that's because I was forced to go there as there is no where else I could go without another Wizard!
So levelling that way isnt MP/cost efficient unless you're absolutely rich or you pay to win.

We're forced to AOE level with another Wizard with our mediocre MC because our single target damage is so so poor and that's the only viable way we can level!
This needs to change so that we can level in other areas and not just in a group but solo too. I hate having the feeling of when I log on I can't just get up and go levelling somewhere because I need another Wizard or a Group to hunt with when every other class can solo just fine! Not everyone wants/likes to group up, some (like myself) are content with levelling solo but as a Wizard, unless you have very high MC, you just can't.

In PVP we're the laughing stock because our damage is so poor and we're always targeted first because it's a free and easy kill not because we're a threat.
Other classes can out pot our damage but we can't out pot theirs, I've been told "You're just **** mate", well no it's not because I'm or other Wizards are **** it's the fact that the Wizard class is so handicapped and has been so nerfed on here so much that we just tickle our opponents.
Not one class fears a Wizard but a Wizard fears every class, it shouldn't be like this.

I just hope the team take some of the suggestions on board and really listen to us, we don't want to be overpowered but as it stands we're incredibly underpowered, we just want to be on an even playing field.

A response from someone on the team would be great to hear what they think about the suggestions in this thread and what they plan to do.

 

[davey_boyy]

Good Post omen I got my wiz to 45 and have now quit it rerolled to Tao and I do more DPS/damage in pvp on bog standard 40 tao with 35 sc than I did on my wizzy lol much much better playing a tao, don't think il ever go back to my wiz even though its 5 lvls higher unless I get extremely lucky and get a flame field book or blizzard but that's another huge problem. No other classes but wizards rely so much on key skills to define their class flame field is one of them for PVE lvling and pvp its a key part of the class it NEEDS to drop it isn't even ingame as far as im aware pretty ridiculous considering its a 42 spell and most wizzys are 44/45 now.

 

[omenking]

I'm very surprised that FlameField hasn't dropped yet considering ArrowBarrage, PoisionCloud, Rage and ShadowStep have all dropped, albeit more than others.
Is FlameField actually in the drop files or is there something the team aren't telling us?

When it does drop for the first time someones going to be very rich, if PoisonCloud sells for 30+mill I dread to think how much FlameField will cost >.<

 

[jez]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

PvP wise, tiger neckies ruin this class.

Which is a shame as I feel they'd be much stronger if this was fixed.

We did have a vote on this and voted to keep it as it was, its not broken, its fine. if you choose to wear a tiger neck its at the expense of something else dont forget, ie less sc or dc etc etc.

The fact that the best wiz to ever grace a mir server dont even play the class on here suggests theres something very wrong tho.
You should speak to him Sam, im sure he could help sort it out. You know him well enuff, you know he knows his stuff.

 

[Carribean]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

The fact that the best wiz to ever grace a mir server dont even play the class on here suggests theres something very wrong tho.

i had a good chuckle at that

 

[Falk]

I recently rerolled from being a Taoist (39) to a Wizard (41) and I've come to realise how bad Wizards have it, I did think to myself when I saw all of these Wizard posts, surely it can't be that bad? But it really is so if you don't play a Wizard you really can't have a say!

I'm mostly finding myself soloing most of the time due to friends having quit or waiting for Patch 2.0 to come out but it's just not that easy like it is for other classes.
Yes we're "kings/queens" of levelling but we have to rely on another Wizard and with the user count hovering around 200 most nights I'm finding it harder and harder to find another Wizard to level with simply because most Wizards have quit/rerolled.
So we're only the fastest levellers if we have a partner to TS/TU with and even that limits us to PT 3rd and BDD Ghoul room, not much variation is there? It soon becomes very dull and boring constantly going to the same two places because that's where we're forced to go.

At level 40 I went to BDD Ghoul room to solo TU Archers, due to the success rate being very poor at that level (baring in mind it's level 3) I found myself tting every 15 - 20 minutes to restock up on pots.
In total I spent ~900k in one sitting to do 50% to get from 39% to 89%, I did the rest in PSC farming gold because I had run out levelling in BDD Ghoul room.
I know what you're probably thinking, "Why go in there solo TUing at level 40 when the success rate is low at that level?". Well that's because I was forced to go there as there is no where else I could go without another Wizard!
So levelling that way isnt MP/cost efficient unless you're absolutely rich or you pay to win.

We're forced to AOE level with another Wizard with our mediocre MC because our single target damage is so so poor and that's the only viable way we can level!
This needs to change so that we can level in other areas and not just in a group but solo too. I hate having the feeling of when I log on I can't just get up and go levelling somewhere because I need another Wizard or a Group to hunt with when every other class can solo just fine! Not everyone wants/likes to group up, some (like myself) are content with levelling solo but as a Wizard, unless you have very high MC, you just can't.

In PVP we're the laughing stock because our damage is so poor and we're always targeted first because it's a free and easy kill not because we're a threat.
Other classes can out pot our damage but we can't out pot theirs, I've been told "You're just **** mate", well no it's not because I'm or other Wizards are **** it's the fact that the Wizard class is so handicapped and has been so nerfed on here so much that we just tickle our opponents.
Not one class fears a Wizard but a Wizard fears every class, it shouldn't be like this.

I just hope the team take some of the suggestions on board and really listen to us, we don't want to be overpowered but as it stands we're incredibly underpowered, we just want to be on an even playing field.

A response from someone on the team would be great to hear what they think about the suggestions in this thread and what they plan to do.

Good post.

 

[Clintus2]

+1 Owen

 

[Exwizz]

Wizzys look like they got it easy in PB in you ask me.

 

[Chriz]

I recently rerolled from being a Taoist (39) to a Wizard (41) and I've come to realise how bad Wizards have it, I did think to myself when I saw all of these Wizard posts, surely it can't be that bad? But it really is so if you don't play a Wizard you really can't have a say!

I'm mostly finding myself soloing most of the time due to friends having quit or waiting for Patch 2.0 to come out but it's just not that easy like it is for other classes.
Yes we're "kings/queens" of levelling but we have to rely on another Wizard and with the user count hovering around 200 most nights I'm finding it harder and harder to find another Wizard to level with simply because most Wizards have quit/rerolled.
So we're only the fastest levellers if we have a partner to TS/TU with and even that limits us to PT 3rd and BDD Ghoul room, not much variation is there? It soon becomes very dull and boring constantly going to the same two places because that's where we're forced to go.

At level 40 I went to BDD Ghoul room to solo TU Archers, due to the success rate being very poor at that level (baring in mind it's level 3) I found myself tting every 15 - 20 minutes to restock up on pots.
In total I spent ~900k in one sitting to do 50% to get from 39% to 89%, I did the rest in PSC farming gold because I had run out levelling in BDD Ghoul room.
I know what you're probably thinking, "Why go in there solo TUing at level 40 when the success rate is low at that level?". Well that's because I was forced to go there as there is no where else I could go without another Wizard!
So levelling that way isnt MP/cost efficient unless you're absolutely rich or you pay to win.

We're forced to AOE level with another Wizard with our mediocre MC because our single target damage is so so poor and that's the only viable way we can level!
This needs to change so that we can level in other areas and not just in a group but solo too. I hate having the feeling of when I log on I can't just get up and go levelling somewhere because I need another Wizard or a Group to hunt with when every other class can solo just fine! Not everyone wants/likes to group up, some (like myself) are content with levelling solo but as a Wizard, unless you have very high MC, you just can't.

In PVP we're the laughing stock because our damage is so poor and we're always targeted first because it's a free and easy kill not because we're a threat.
Other classes can out pot our damage but we can't out pot theirs, I've been told "You're just **** mate", well no it's not because I'm or other Wizards are **** it's the fact that the Wizard class is so handicapped and has been so nerfed on here so much that we just tickle our opponents.
Not one class fears a Wizard but a Wizard fears every class, it shouldn't be like this.

I just hope the team take some of the suggestions on board and really listen to us, we don't want to be overpowered but as it stands we're incredibly underpowered, we just want to be on an even playing field.

A response from someone on the team would be great to hear what they think about the suggestions in this thread and what they plan to do.

+1

its a shame most of the wizzies have already quit/rerolled.. I gave up at 32 on my wiz, could already tell they was nerfed bad.. FC hitting 30's is a joke and shield lasting 2-3 hits. lol.