Sunpot Delay

[Azz]

If your concern is only the fact that people were using a scrip then change your delay to .25/.3 seconds, well within the range that people can spam without the aid of a marco. Fixed.

If you want to make content harder then introduce new harder content. Fixed

This change further imbalances classes and also removes some of the fun of pvp. You have very high damage pvp at the moment and this change removes some counter play from pvp, sure people die but the fights aren't as fun, organized and long.

I can't fathom a good reason for this change, "it more fun because its more challenging" why would making all the content you have already done more challenging be fun? New content is always better. Since this change disproportionately effects different classes of course you will get people that love it as it makes them stonger, something that is often overlooked.

I would be interested if someone could come up with a really good reason why it just isn't changed to a .25/.3 sec delay.

I like it because it makes the game more realistic, one sin with script and 7 bundles of sun's can just tank 3/4 warriors without dying. Now they are forced to die or tt.

I have to massively disagree with your post, people just want stuff to be easy and get things without putting any hard work in. Again the current sunpots make the game harder esp the end game bosses... The way it should be!!

Again I vote to keep it as it is or put to. 25 of a second but remove the ability to have sun bundles.

Maybe to you the current content is not more fun as a harder challenge but to alot it is.

ssgohan

 

[ILovePie:D]

I like it because it makes the game more realistic, one sin with script and 7 bundles of sun's can just tank 3/4 warriors without dying. Now they are forced to die or tt.

I have to massively disagree with your post, people just want stuff to be easy and get things without putting any hard work in. Again the current sunpots make the game harder esp the end game bosses... The way it should be!!

Again I vote to keep it as it is or put to. 25 of a second but remove the ability to have sun bundles.

Maybe to you the current content is not more fun as a harder challenge but to alot it is.

ssgohan

Should perhaps remove autopot for up too, make everyone work harder as they used to.

I've always been able to tank 3-4 warriors, that won't change. It makes it easier for myself as warriors can out sun my damage.

No one wants things easy, like I said to you before, try and kill demonking with melee, instead of ranged killing a trapped mob. If you want the game to be harder, why not allow demonking to teleport randomly onto the group, where it can perform all of its attacks? This would give a bit of a challenge for you? Means you wouldn't have to be a pot runner on your melee class then

 

[ziiid]

I like it because it makes the game more realistic, one sin with script and 7 bundles of sun's can just tank 3/4 warriors without dying. Now they are forced to die or tt.

I have to massively disagree with your post, people just want stuff to be easy and get things without putting any hard work in. Again the current sunpots make the game harder esp the end game bosses... The way it should be!!

Again I vote to keep it as it is or put to. 25 of a second but remove the ability to have sun bundles.

Maybe to you the current content is not more fun as a harder challenge but to alot it is.

ssgohan

.25 sec delay fixes the script problem as I already mentioned....your example seems to want to make a particular class OP, turns out it makes it more balanced. Sunpot delay favors large hp pools (war) and/or damage mitigation classes (wizard) disproportionately to taos sins and archers.

Please explain in detail why making old content harder is more fun than making new content that is hard.....why not just half the effectiveness of all skills, cut all hp pools and halve all the stats on gear? (hint because it isn't as much fun as continually progressing into new more difficult content.)

 

[Woodiex3]

people are still killing bosses no problem, players are dying more often in pvp

yet a certain few want the death immunity back in game ><

 

[HokusPokus]

people are still killing bosses no problem, players are dying more often in pvp

yet a certain few want the death immunity back in game ><

Well i think the forsaken leaders/members have given a good account to why nothing needs changing...
Team havent enough good quality ranged members?all classes should have a part to play in a guildhunt...hopefully small greed groups will now diminish,i notice blackwidows have grown which is pleasing(my original guild).The server is on the up and has a good feel to it, even if top end ppl are selling up,that will always happen.Maybe in the near future we will see some much needed higher end new content, that will probably bring back quite a few.
If the sunpot delay doesnt suit your gameplay try rethinking your tactics or maybe you just became to reliant on them?I think it is a massive improvement overall.

Forsaken Forever:victorious:

 

[jonti]

If your concern is only the fact that people were using a scrip then change your delay to .25/.3 seconds, well within the range that people can spam without the aid of a marco..
I would be interested if someone could come up with a really good reason why it just isn't changed to a .25/.3 sec delay.

Some players are convinced that everyone else or a lot of other people are using extra help(macro auto sunpot) to win fights and kill bosses.
Looks same as saying everyone else is a cheat.

Ziid seems to have a well argued sensible pragmatic view.
The sunpot delay benefits wars n wiz and disadvantages taos archers n sins.
That makes sense to me.
If you can put convincing reasons why that isnt true I would like to know what they are please. Not just pot shots at other people.

 

[HokusPokus]

Some players are convinced that everyone else or a lot of other people are using extra help(macro auto sunpot) to win fights and kill bosses.
Looks same as saying everyone else is a cheat.

Ziid seems to have a well argued sensible pragmatic view.
The sunpot delay benefits wars n wiz and disadvantages taos archers n sins.
That makes sense to me.
If you can put convincing reasons why that isnt true I would like to know what they are please. Not just pot shots at other people.

dont get this tbh...most classes were being 1/2 hit b4 sunpot delay and they are still being 1/2 hit with delay. The biggest hp pool was the benifactor of no delay....some OP players were taking massive damage without dieing...no names.

 

[ILovePie:D]

dont get this tbh...most classes were being 1/2 hit b4 sunpot delay and they are still being 1/2 hit with delay. The biggest hp pool was the benifactor of no delay....some OP players were taking massive damage without dieing...no names.

If you are being 1 hit, a sunpot isn't going to save you anyway.

If a warrior has 1000hp, ofcourse it's still going to be hard to kill him.

If a wizard has 400hp and a shield tha negates 66% of the damage, ofcourse it's still going to be hard to killthem.

They are the 2 classes who benefit to the sunpot change.

Archers sins and taos who have smaller HP pools, with no shield, are the ones who are take the brunt of this.

Hocus, you're still as deluded as ever.

 

[Azz]

Tori my post about sins was not aimed at you. You have massively adapted ur kit to handle that kind of output.

I also play a sin now and yes the sun pot has made it harder but I'm not crying about it. End of the day it's a sin (low health pool) I will have to spend a fortune and adapt my kit if I want to toe to toe warriors. The way it shud be not just spam sun's for fun.

 

[ILovePie:D]

Tori my post about sins was not aimed at you. You have massively adapted ur kit to handle that kind of output.

I also play a sin now and yes the sun pot has made it harder but I'm not crying about it. End of the day it's a sin (low health pool) I will have to spend a fortune and adapt my kit if I want to toe to toe warriors. The way it shud be not just spam sun's for fun.

How do you adapt your kit to avoid FF spam? So you have to be close to the wizard to do so. Their shield soaks up 66% of your damage. And they are able to sunpot / hp pot your damage. Does that seem fair? Maybe MR should come into play to counter all wizard spells?

Until then, people need to be able to counter said damage. What is your solution?

It's a butterfly effect, if you change one thing, it has knock on effects. Wizards and warriors benefit most from this.

I've never needed to spam suns, apart from a few bosses. EE/DK (as melee kills). I don't pot carry for wizards, I get stuck in.

 

[Silencer]

Well i think the forsaken leaders/members have given a good account to why nothing needs changing...
Team havent enough good quality ranged members?all classes should have a part to play in a guildhunt...hopefully small greed groups will now diminish,i notice blackwidows have grown which is pleasing(my original guild).The server is on the up and has a good feel to it, even if top end ppl are selling up,that will always happen.Maybe in the near future we will see some much needed higher end new content, that will probably bring back quite a few.
If the sunpot delay doesnt suit your gameplay try rethinking your tactics or maybe you just became to reliant on them?I think it is a massive improvement overall.

Forsaken Forever:victorious:

I was good enough on my ranged class char yesterday along with Bard and Shrek to keep Forsaken in SZ

 

[Tai]

If you are being 1 hit, a sunpot isn't going to save you anyway.

If a warrior has 1000hp, ofcourse it's still going to be hard to kill him.

If a wizard has 400hp and a shield tha negates 66% of the damage, ofcourse it's still going to be hard to killthem.

They are the 2 classes who benefit to the sunpot change.

Archers sins and taos who have smaller HP pools, with no shield, are the ones who are take the brunt of this.

Hocus, you're still as deluded as ever.

Yet you just said that you (a sin) "can still tank 3-4 warriors np" and the sun pot change has made it easier for YOU because warrior's can't out-pot your damage any more.

Now you're saying the opposite. Which one is it going to be?

Spare me the post on your agility kit ya fookin weasel

 

[CrazyBear...]

This thread is getting more and more controversial by the minute. As always it will lead to nothing changing.

 

[ILovePie:D]

Yet you just said that you (a sin) "can still tank 3-4 warriors np" and the sun pot change has made it easier for YOU because warrior's can't out-pot your damage any more.

Now you're saying the opposite. Which one is it going to be?

Spare me the post on your agility kit ya fookin weasel

You answered your own question there.

Not everyone has Tori-spec kit. Just because I can tank the damage, doesn't mean everyone can.

I also mentioned wizards damage, which is non avoidable to any class. Other than wizards who can soak the damage up.

 

[Azz]

I was good enough on my ranged class char yesterday along with Bard and Shrek to keep Forsaken in SZ

Haha that is true, I didn't fancy getting ab'd by u bard and shred. We all no how well I drop

Was a fun fight (well scrap) before more turned up was about 5 against 3.

 

[Silencer]

Haha that is true, I didn't fancy getting ab'd by u bard and shred. We all no how well I drop

Was a fun fight (well scrap) before more turned up was about 5 against 3.

3 ABs is seriously painful haha!!

Was good fun, be better out of town in a cave, no noobs griefing or other guilds jumping in!!

 

[Azz]

3 ABs is seriously painful haha!!

Was good fun, be better out of town in a cave, no noobs griefing or other guilds jumping in!!

Yeah made my sin red on them in town. We had a good scrap in bdd with tko other day cave fights alot better. Rts just piss me off in bdd.

 

[Razarus]

Content that requires planning, tactics and a large group is great and neccessary to give those large group players the content they enjoy.
Similarly smaller groups of players and even those 1-2man groups need content so that they can enjoy playing the same way they have played for over 10years.

I very often read things like "you cant change the drop rates now as its unfair on people who have not been able to farm it" , "its always been that way" , "its like that on official"
It seems that these terms are only used when it suits those using them.

This sun pot change, i have not tested its impact myself so basing this on everything ive read and heard.
It benefits pve wise those that like to hunt in very large groups and those that enjoy taking advantage of poor ai/game design labeling it "tactics" (like in/out door killing EE, trapping bosses etc etc)

Forsaken members are going to back this change as they do fall into one or both of these categories. As previously mentioned all types of players do need content so its not neccesarily a bad this.. Or is it?

Well, as players progress through the levels/kit and content they should not be forced to group with 10other people just to progress further. (My opinion of course)
TKO are a fine example of a small group who efficiently farm bosses, i may be wrong but id suspect that GK --> all the subs --> DK are all out of limits due to this change??
Is it "fair" to cut people off from content they used to be able to do prior this knee jerk reaction? I dont think its particularily unfair but an alternative should be available.. Instead groups like this will quickly get bored and ultimately quit the server (i think some have already)

Now there are new faces to replace them, but what happens when they also reach this point in the game? Do the server team want people to play past level 48 or are they happy to let them go and hope new players do keep coming?

Pvp wise its all already been covered. Sins get the worst of it being close range low health players that cannot do "burst damage" against wizards as its all mitigated with shield. So they sun pot once thdn rt/tt or die. Its really not a nice change for sins. Every other class is ok. Wars have a big enough health pool to get off some damage then "immune run" aldo known as shoulder dash away. Archers are ranged and would usually die if they needed more than 1sun pot anyway, taos tend not to get stuck wiz mitigate.

Every sin that doesnt have 100ds of millions worth of kit has taken a huge nerf in pvp and pve.

Last note on how stupid this change is.
EE- i clever mob build, huge damage, teles over walls and rages like mad if you try any "tactics" other than utility builds. Before the change 5sins and a tao could kill it (possibly less) requiring a nice supply of +slow and sun pots between the slow. Now thats not going to happen. Its being killed by 1wiz 1tao stepping in and out of the door flamefielding and poison clouding...
If this is the server teams idea of a "positive more challenging" change then id hate to see whats coming next. "No pots inside kr"?

 

[MelkorXV]

We just killed EE with 5 people, not sure what the problem is?

 

[GimmeAKitKat]

As Melk said, weve just done EE to test what people are saying, and I still don't quite understand the drastic need for change.

There was no blocking involved, no in out of the door, no tactics, no specialised kits, only lvl 50 there was Mirtiger I believe, and we didn't even take in our biggest hitters (coz I went in =P ), we just went in and killed it. The squishies took a fair spanking when he raged but overall it was barely a moderately difficult kill.

The only think I can think of is that the squishy classes going are doing it in full dc/sc/mc kits like most bosses, and that is going to hurt, wack abit of amc on or a tiger neck and I imagine squishies would fair a lot better.

Again, not trying to insult or offend, but I cant currently see what the massive problem is.