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Samuel

Mir Chronicles Dev
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Feb 8, 2011
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I like the sound of this then.
So you cast once - the target location is either filled with a decoy or you depending on success rate. (the success rate will need testing and adjusting i'm sure)

What then happens if you Cast it a second time while the original decoy is still in the screen?
Does it still try to swap places with the original?
Ignore it completely and cast a second decoy? (potential for multiple decoys on screen = bad)
Destroy the first decoy and create a new one at target location or your location depending on jump success?

If your decoy is out, then pressing the key will have the same effect as it does at the moment, it will kill the clone (and no swap). So I guess I lied earlier, currently there are 3 steps:
Key 1: Spawn Decoy
Key 2: Swap with Decoy
Key 3: Kill Clone

It would now be:
Key 1: Spawn and swap with Decoy
Key 2: Kill decoy

So its not exactly like SS, but does give either a good get in OR get out, but not ideal for both (if that makes sense).

Sam

---------- Post Merged at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:32 PM ----------

Forgive me but no experienced class player will go out of their way to make the class balanced. It doesn't work like that. Every 1 knows they will do what they can to make their own class the best


Samuel ninja edits would of been the best way for you to have implimented this. At least that way you could see how people gauged the changes and reacted to then and actually got a idea if they were truly balanced

I tend not to opt for the ninja edit approach even if it is easier... I recall playing some servers and the ninja edits drove me crazy, part of the reason I left and started on AM2.

Sam

---------- Post Merged at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:37 PM ----------

Damage increases for archers just seems really unneeded. They need a little survivability at most, which may have been solved by the spells already supposedly in game but not dropping yet.

Bard/KT can 1 hit an equally lvled warrior, whatever you say that's OP. Yes, MR helps avoid attacks, but that's a hit or miss, not mitigation. So yes, they might step out of SZ and miss 2-3 times, but quite occasionally they are going to step out of sz (or clone in, when outside town) and 1 hit people they shouldn't really be able to.

AB already hits like a truck, Static is already devastating in mass pvp, piercing shot is also a massively effective skill. They don't need damage, they need the spells they are supposed to have.

Get the new skills dropping and then worry about changing stuff.

Also Decoy is used for more than just moving location, I assumed that was the reason it took 2 clicks, people use it as an ACTUAL DECOY believe it or not....you know like the name would imply. All the proposed change does is make them even more effective in town fights and take away a valid PvE skill?

Fair comments... My changes came from a number of different places...

1, I played through Archer on a test server (at an increased rate, but still...) and the cooldown on spells were nothing but frustrating, they annoyed me and they made me not want to play (and our stats show that I am not alone on this, Archers are the least active and the least made characters by a good margin)... There has to be a good deal on balance on a single character as well as amongst the classes, enjoyability versus grind etc.

2, feedback over the last 8 months through forums... Changes to archer were always coming and there would be no good time for them to come.

The newer skills (especially trap) are really aimed at PvP, which is the smaller portion of the community, I don't see trap increasing the overall enjoyability of the class for PvE.

Decoy still has its aggro ability, I just removed an additional step which again, I found really frustrating on my play through.

Sam
 

muffinpie

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Ill be back in 15 minutes if ive been picked to help with this, got a few things i think would be a good test if you pick 3 archers for this.

Posting on my phone so cba to quote but whoever posted the absolute **** about archers 1 hitting equally leveled warriors is an idiot, the only time ive 1 hit warriors that are 40+ is with last suppers if i had enough of these left to waste i could prove it but im down to my last couple and im saving them for revamped sw (i had around 180-200 with these on depending if i was in my dc or hp kit).
 

Woodiex3

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archers damage is not a problem if anything they do to much damage.

reducing there cool down by 50% is doubling there damage over time ><
 

Nemo

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So I don't know where you've placed traps level wise, but they sure should be low level as we originally planned. They are 100% necessary for both PvP and PvE. Laying traps down slows your pursuers and means you spend less time kiting and more time attacking, perfect for any situation. You could use them along with a wizz TSing, similar to curse in the case of ice traps(realistically regular damage explosive traps should come before ice).

Attuned Body, again I don't know where you've placed it, but as originally planned sure should be a lv 32ish spell(in line with magic shield) as it is their survivability spell all the same.

Feign Death I think should still be introduced, as another survival tactic spell, well placed in PvP could let your opponent think he's beat you. PvE in tight situations stops aggro on you.

Other spells don't need any real adjustment as far as i've seen, other than ArrowBarrage, which doesn't work how you seemed to used to say it did. Each shot should have its own miss chance. Chance of landing all 3 being moderate - low. You should not fire it and hit all 3 every time, nor should you be able to fire it and miss all 3(not including magic resistance here).
Last I checked this still was the case, if you miss with it then that's it, none of it hits.

You're going about altering them all wrong IMO, if they had what they was supposed to have, there wouldn't be so many problems. Reducing a load of cooldowns with a passive seems meh, almost makes the orig cooldowns pointless and may as well just have them the reduced versions to start with if everyone/most have the book anyway.
 
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Samuel

Mir Chronicles Dev
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I have opened up Jackuzzie, MrTashohnie and KingTony (1 from each guild that popped their names down) accounts on test dedi.

Pop on the server when it is back up and make an archer, I will be back in like 15 minutes.

Sam
 

muffinpie

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Ok so i'm back from work and going to give a long winded and drawn out post on the effects this will have, also if you;ve never played and archer and only been bashed around by one of the few decent high level archers then please don't comment and learn to kit/fight an archer appropriately.

The powershot change is the wrong move imo, it needs to push the caster back rather than have an AOE effect on it, it should also do 0 damage and be spamable (every other class has a spamable repulsion/escape spell)

Decoy should remain as 2 key presses an auto switch isn't whats needed you should just be able to switch instantly from the second key press without the cooldown and the cooldown should only come into effect after the switch has been made

I like the sound of quickload and would really like some input on this, maybe make it so it ticks off a % of cooldowns per shot fired so as to not make it to op, something like this should have been in from the start as the pitiful fire rate of arrows when you skills are on cooldown and the loss in dps is horrendous, i think if you make it work while arrows aren;t being fired it will make archers op as it is passive.

Can't really speak for traps and attuned body but i would suggest attuned body is made alot more readily available it should of been in from the start and im expecting once introduced it should become a shop book, and as for traps i expect that book to be rare as it will be a game changer for archers like curse is for taos.

Have you thought about giving archers there own versions of blizz/met one that does aoe fireshots and another that does aoe ice shot but lock them to the spot like wizards are with there versions of these spells, currently after level 48 there is no reason for an archer to level other than the higher dc items, fair play to the archers that have done this but i don't really see any need.

@Woodie archers dont do too much damage and like i said before the damage is horrendous while deathly aim and rapid fire are on cooldown and its easier to just run around the big fights when these skills drop off and wait for them to reset because i know from playing warrior when i dont see attuned mind active thats the time to go in for a kill because everything else is generally on a cooldown, if you think the fact we can lower the cooldown on these spells is unfair then maybe you should play an archer for a week and see the effect it has on your dps, the fact we even have a cooldown on them is ridiculous it would be like you have a cooldown on TDB and only being able to hit half as fast and with alot less damage while it was on cooldown.

TL;DR, get some patience and read it
 

ILovePie:D

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Be nice to have a high level archer spell. Their "top" spells are 40 + 42. No real need to level them for anything. AB hits like a train and is level 3 at 46.

Make trap a high level skill. And the quickload.
 

muffinpie

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I agree on the fact the traps should be around a level 45 spell but quickload should be low level and again should have been in from he start
 

Turrican

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Archers was designed around traps being a low-med level spell, that's why they are in the state they are in atm, they have no control (they should never have gone live without traps)

Archer is not a tank, its not a AoE class, its not a shadowstepping assassin, it should be a high dps ranged class that kites. They cant kite without icetrap, and have been poor ever since the iceshot slow proc nerf (which was their only means of kiting)
 
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Carribean

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Archers was designed around traps being a low-med level spell, that's why they are in the state they are in atm, they have no control (they should never have gone live without traps)

Archer is not a tank, its not a AoE class, its not a shadowstepping assassin, it should be a high dps ranged class that kites. They cant kite without icetrap, and have been poor ever since the iceshot slow proc nerf (which was their only means of kiting)
Nice to see someone make sense, they got broke months ago
 

GimmeAKitKat

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It would now be:
Key 1: Spawn and swap with Decoy
Key 2: Kill decoy

Decoy still has its aggro ability, I just removed an additional step which again, I found really frustrating on my play through.

Sam

Sam, i think your looking at Decoy backwards to how it is often used, or at least forgetting 1 side of it. Archers tend to cast clone into mobs ahead of them to take agro while they run around or past, no just casting it to get out of mobs or into doorways. By making this change, you stop archers doing that, they have to be in mobs before it becomes valuable.

Also, granted you can just say "check the form or read the patch notes" but can you imagine how pissed people are going to be when they haven't done that, as the majority wont.
Archers will be logging in unaware of a drastic change and effectively SS'ing themselves INTO mob groups, thinking that their clone will "Decoy" as intended. It will be carnage.

Again, new skills need to be ingame and given a chance before massive buff's or nerf's like this.


A 46 Warrior can 1 hit a 46 Archer? So could a well kitted 46 Wiz.

Im not disputing that well kitted warriors can 1 hit archers, but Archers aren't supposed to be tanks, Warriors are. If your TANK class is being 1 hit or even very close to it...its just wrong. Archers regularly take warriors down 70-80% of their health and if I remember rightly Bard 1 Hit a red poisoned Alfiee not long back, and Alfiee has how many lvl's on Bard? plus good gear. Bard also pretty much 1 hit me in hell the other night too. Their Static shot As KingTony is always more than happy to shout about has nearly wiped full groups of people out in pvp. Damage simply isn't their issue.

Sorry guys I should have said... Run the patcher and double click the "mir2test.exe".

Sam

When will this be open till Sam?

I just ask as Jackuzzie doesn't have a forum account, ill let her know tomorrow but i don't think she was aware of this tonight as she logged off after our hunts were done.
 
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Koriban

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OK

So with these changes.

2 archers 1 constant static shock 1 dble ab any 1 gets close decoy to other side and carry on......

2 Wizzards, FF everything to death.

2 Warriors, TDB any target down instantly to death

2 Assassins, shadowstep next to the same target instant kill

2 Tao's... Curse Spam :applause:

Everything's OP when you double it.

About time archers saw some love, good job, looking forward to these changes (I recall making a massive thread long ago about the issues archers have) . Might even go back to my Archer if they turn out to be fun!

Also, why on earth people are saying Archers are "OP" in damage I have no idea. Their ENTIRE skillset is countered by one TigerNecklace. Every single sane person carries a tiger necky in their bag for this very reason. What good is being able to do damage if half your hits completely miss? lol.
 
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Silencer

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Sam, i think your looking at Decoy backwards to how it is often used, or at least forgetting 1 side of it. Archers tend to cast clone into mobs ahead of them to take agro while they run around or past, no just casting it to get out of mobs or into doorways. By making this change, you stop archers doing that, they have to be in mobs before it becomes valuable.

Also, granted you can just say "check the form or read the patch notes" but can you imagine how pissed people are going to be when they haven't done that, as the majority wont.
Archers will be logging in unaware of a drastic change and effectively SS'ing themselves INTO mob groups, thinking that their clone will "Decoy" as intended. It will be carnage.

Again, new skills need to be ingame and given a chance before massive buff's or nerf's like this.




Im not disputing that well kitted warriors can 1 hit archers, but Archers aren't supposed to be tanks, Warriors are. If your TANK class is being 1 hit or even very close to it...its just wrong. Archers regularly take warriors down 70-80% of their health and if I remember rightly Bard 1 Hit a red poisoned Alfiee not long back, and Alfiee has how many lvl's on Bard? plus good gear. Bard also pretty much 1 hit me in hell the other night too. Their Static shot As KingTony is always more than happy to shout about has nearly wiped full groups of people out in pvp. Damage simply isn't their issue.



When will this be open till Sam?

I just ask as Jackuzzie doesn't have a forum account, ill let her know tomorrow but i don't think she was aware of this tonight as she logged off after our hunts were done.

Was on the test server last night with KingTony and I think we both felt the Decoy change will heavily improve archers gameplay.