Wizard Class

[ILovePie:D]

Could you let us know what your current view is on the wizard class?

If you feel they are fine as they are, or if they need improving?

My view on the wizard class.

SkillsFrost Crunch needs a serious buff - this has always been the best PVP skill to use (bar landing a lightning hit on a moving target). It always had good damage to it, and also the chance to slow. At the moment, this does minimal damage. We seem to be like an accessory to kill people, ie we are only there to 'slow' the target. Any damage we do, can be outpotted straight away, due to the good HP pots.

Lightning is OK, this doesn't need changing, we can manage to get 1 good hit, of around 100-120 with around MC45? The chances of landing 2 consecutive hits on someone who is not afk, isn't easy, and like said above, can be outpotted by the time we land a 2nd hit.

Mirroring, i've yet to learn this yet, however from peoples reports back, it seems to work like it did on euro (except having a FD effect on living targets). This never used to serve decent damage, it was more of a help to flinch a target. Slight help for bosses too. I saw you say that you were introducing a command for it like you did with deva ... IF you plan to keep deva this way, OK i'll say it's a good thing ... however the deva commands to be able to lock onto masters target is seriously overpowered, and think it's a bad thing to have.

Leveling

As much as everyone likes to say wizards are the best at leveling, we are seriously handicapped on here. We have basically 2 places to level fast.

PT 3rd - TStorming - the exp here isn't the best, however the respawns are good, and over time you can make some good exp.
BDD Ghoul Room - Due to the insane archer spawns, this is the fastest place to level, with Turn Undead.

Pets to me, are not a viable option, due to the time taking to tame them, and how often they untame, die from running into random lures (no control over them).

BDD and ZT 7th used to be great for guild hunting, couple wizards to TS lures, others to lure mobs etc. However, due to the mobs large HP pool compared to any other server i've played, this is not cost effective. The MP used to TS a lure of these down is too much. Why do they have such high HP? You never see anyone leveling in there, clearing the mazes or the large rooms.

Mobs AI
This was always **** at the start of the server, you couldn't Firewall over walls, ie in ST B7. I'm happy that most mobs now react how they used to. Can you look into the AI of some of the bosses? KS for example, this was always camped by wiz, especially in the KR. You cannot kill this now on a wizard, due to it walking around the corner. Unless you stand infont of it, it's a waste of time. This goes for a lot of the old bosses, they could always be killed in a small group, DD for example, you could make a small wall. I know you wanted to see more 'guild' hunting, but this only seems to effect the wizards, as you can kill OK, DD etc with a warrior/sin and a taoist.

HP
I've always liked the fact wizards have low HP, this has always been there weakness, but have always been able to cast good damage. Why buff the archers HP, when they were set up to be similar to a wiz (ie ranged class and shouldn't get hit but good damage) Should wiz get a HP boost also? I disagree. But think ranged class should also be kept lower HP.

Didn't realise I had typed this much, so apologise for the wall of text. I'm sure all wizards feel they are very underpowered on here, and it is not as much fun to play.

Hopefully this thread will stop Zeus from killing himself.

 

[Babyhack]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Can we threat this thread in the same way we did with the assassin thread and have a mature discussion about the class.

Same as the assassin thread I'm am interested in hearing peoples views on the class

BH

 

[rainstone]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

For the mirroring, I have tested and Sorry to brought it again for some people:

Learned at level 41, Wizard, reach level 3 at 45, MP consumption 39.
function: flinching mobs or players by FlameDisruptor (for life, MP consumption 37 of main character per attack) or Thurder bolt (for undead, MP consumption 18 of main character per attack), damage range 7-11 for Both FD and TB. it absorbs its damage and reduce main character's MP. Do not have magicshield.
leveling: not clear.

Originally Posted by Ezrolith
I had mirroring on both Euro & GamePotUSA and these are the changes that should be made to match it:-

1.) Mirror does have some AC/AMC on those servers. I don't know the exact figures, I would suggest this is based on a typical L40 Wiz AC/AMC
2.) Damage taken by mirror is equal to 1/5 that amount of MP only, not same amount. E.g. On Euro the guard would do 200 damage for example and my MP bar lost 40MP. This applies to all damage taken, you receive the 20% the damage amount from your MP bar.
3.) Mirroring does not take 18/37MP per shot, it takes MP overtime by reducing your 16-18 second regain. Level 0 reduced it somewhat, Level 1 quite significantly, level 2 made it so you hardly regained anything and level 3 made you lose MP per interval rather than regain it. So levelling it to L3 was a tricky decision
4.) Mirrorings damage increased with level, and this was visible from tests on the trainer. Level 3 did much more than Level 0 did and attacked significantly quicker. Level 0 had a delay which made it slower than a player while Level 3 matched the same speed. Overall levelling made it a huge different to damage output but cost you MP over time.



I did play ACE2M and I noticed mirroring was not the same as Euro in the above ways. The way it took mana per shot was a disaster and a mistake IMO, made it useless for PvE and was not as it was originally. As said it just become this useless PvP crap which I stopped using in favor of an extra pet.

Source: my memory, either everything I have said above is true or I have mental problems and remember fake things that I spent hundred of hours testing on trainer and making notes of in notepads.

Could you let us know what your current view is on the wizard class?

Mirroring, i've yet to learn this yet, however from peoples reports back, it seems to work like it did on euro (except having a FD effect on living targets). This never used to serve decent damage, it was more of a help to flinch a target. Slight help for bosses too. I saw you say that you were introducing a command for it like you did with deva ... IF you plan to keep deva this way, OK i'll say it's a good thing ... however the deva commands to be able to lock onto masters target is seriously overpowered, and think it's a bad thing to have.

It also have the same bug as it in ACM2:

If you have 4 pets and put mirror out, it then doesn't let you put it back away. It's acting like you have 5 pets and there-for can't use mirror, even though you're actually trying to put the mana-sucker away.

 

[Paloma]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Are wizards the same on more modern official servers as they were on euro?
Someone who has played Korea please tell me.
Seems to me that wizards were always broken from euro onwards because they were never balanced back then(nothing was) and no one ever tried to adjust them since. It became the only class to play if you wanted to progress fast solo everything changing mir into a solo game(may as well play a console) instead of a group game with a couple of obv exceptions like EM.
Why should wiz be the only class who can solo KS?
I was pleased that this server was not the same as all the others and me n everyone else had to try different things. Seems people especially wiz want to be the same.
I liked the differences, welcomed the changes as refreshing. I dont want it to change back to being "just like all the other p servers"

 

[Raider]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

A
Why should wiz be the only class who can solo KS?

Why should wizards be one of the only classes who can't solo KS properly?

I'll post my thoughts on wizards later as I have a lot to say.

/Xele

 

[ILovePie:D]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

For the mirroring, I have tested and Sorry to brought it again for some people:

Learned at level 41, Wizard, reach level 3 at 45, MP consumption 39.
function: flinching mobs or players by FlameDisruptor (for life, MP consumption 37 of main character per attack) or Thurder bolt (for undead, MP consumption 18 of main character per attack), damage range 7-11 for Both FD and TB. it absorbs its damage and reduce main character's MP. Do not have magicshield.
leveling: not clear.

Originally Posted by Ezrolith
I had mirroring on both Euro & GamePotUSA and these are the changes that should be made to match it:-

1.) Mirror does have some AC/AMC on those servers. I don't know the exact figures, I would suggest this is based on a typical L40 Wiz AC/AMC
2.) Damage taken by mirror is equal to 1/5 that amount of MP only, not same amount. E.g. On Euro the guard would do 200 damage for example and my MP bar lost 40MP. This applies to all damage taken, you receive the 20% the damage amount from your MP bar.
3.) Mirroring does not take 18/37MP per shot, it takes MP overtime by reducing your 16-18 second regain. Level 0 reduced it somewhat, Level 1 quite significantly, level 2 made it so you hardly regained anything and level 3 made you lose MP per interval rather than regain it. So levelling it to L3 was a tricky decision
4.) Mirrorings damage increased with level, and this was visible from tests on the trainer. Level 3 did much more than Level 0 did and attacked significantly quicker. Level 0 had a delay which made it slower than a player while Level 3 matched the same speed. Overall levelling made it a huge different to damage output but cost you MP over time.



I did play ACE2M and I noticed mirroring was not the same as Euro in the above ways. The way it took mana per shot was a disaster and a mistake IMO, made it useless for PvE and was not as it was originally. As said it just become this useless PvP crap which I stopped using in favor of an extra pet.

Source: my memory, either everything I have said above is true or I have mental problems and remember fake things that I spent hundred of hours testing on trainer and making notes of in notepads.



It also have the same bug as it in ACM2:

If you have 4 pets and put mirror out, it then doesn't let you put it back away. It's acting like you have 5 pets and there-for can't use mirror, even though you're actually trying to put the mana-sucker away.

Mirror on euro would only use MP as 1- when it was attacked, going down at a slower rate to HP. You could basically leave this out all day with mobs hitting it, if you could sit all day in a pot shop drinking MP. (As post 2 above by Ezrolith ) 2/ It's MP would go down slowly, whilst being left out. There was no mana usage for casting spells. It's damage was never really anything to brag about, yes it's damage would help a little while killing bosses. Ezrolith's comments above are very true in how it used to work.

As i've said, if mirror had controls like deva, it would help .... but I do not agree that these controls should even exist. Deva follow & guard do seem OK, but being able to lock onto a target, is not something that should be done.

I'm pretty sure on Euro, you could only have 4 pets + mirror.

 

[evilwomann]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Agree with lovepie Deffo with the hp of Bdd mobs, nothing has been said about lowering hp so doubt anything will happen with that
I played ace got to around 52 I think and Imo wizzies were op on there but it seems it's gone the complete other way and wizzies are underpowered now

 

[ILovePie:D]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Why should wizards be one of the only classes who can't solo KS properly?

I'll post my thoughts on wizards later as I have a lot to say.

/Xele

Excactly, Taos, warriors, sins and archers can all solo KS.

It's not just KS, it's other bosses too.

Sure, keep the new bosses as they are, with your new "amazing AI" ... like Orc Collossus, which can be killed by a tao and 1/2 archers....

The old bosses should be able to be killed in smaller groups. I would agree if no one was able to kill in a small group, but as you can kill most bosses with a tao and sin/war, then everyone should be able to.

 

[FaithKING69]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Excactly, Taos, warriors, sins and archers can all solo KS.

It's not just KS, it's other bosses too.

Sure, keep the new bosses as they are, with your new "amazing AI" ... like Orc Collossus, which can be killed by a tao and 1/2 archers....

The old bosses should be able to be killed in smaller groups. I would agree if no one was able to kill in a small group, but as you can kill most bosses with a tao and sin/war, then everyone should be able to.

Lmao wizies are not class to kill boses. Its only for mass kiling mobs.

 

[rainstone]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Just to make things clear.
1. Mirroring take 100% damage and consume 100% of main character's MP.
2. it consume main charcater's MP per attack
3. According to what Sam said, the FD and TD is just change of pictures. But most improtant!! it consumes different volume of MP when it switch it's skill (FlameDisruptor 37, TD 18).
4. the point of last paragraph is: you can not put this mana-sucker away when you have 4 pets and mirroring out.

Mirror on euro would only use MP as 1- when it was attacked, going down at a slower rate to HP. You could basically leave this out all day with mobs hitting it, if you could sit all day in a pot shop drinking MP. (As post 2 above by Ezrolith ) 2/ It's MP would go down slowly, whilst being left out. There was no mana usage for casting spells. It's damage was never really anything to brag about, yes it's damage would help a little while killing bosses. Ezrolith's comments above are very true in how it used to work.

As i've said, if mirror had controls like deva, it would help .... but I do not agree that these controls should even exist. Deva follow & guard do seem OK, but being able to lock onto a target, is not something that should be done.

I'm pretty sure on Euro, you could only have 4 pets + mirror.

 

[Scampi]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

i think it is important to look at why changes like this should or need to be made.. the usercount we all know has been suffering, but i wonder if there is any corrolation to players leaving and classes becomning more/less frequently used? im not suggesting its all wizards quitting, and would in fact say that its most likely an even split of classes leaving - which means a focus on class changes / balance is probably looking in the wrong direction for the more immediate future.

however, i have played a lot of mir over the years (mostly as wizard and warrior) and will re itterate a few points i had previously raised with some up to date modifications. my overall feeling is that wizards arent far off the mark - and a few non knee jerk changes could make a considerable difference to the quality of play for not just wizards, but also the groups they ought to be mob clearing to kr's for (which obviously benefits everyone).

we all know wizards here are for aoe damage, leaving archers as the main single target dps. this makes sense and for the sake of this post will not consider the potentialy viable prospect of discussing or altering this set up - although i do have some conflicting opinions with how some spells should work in pvp or pve.

players need to log in and feel capable and able to do a variety of things immediately. classes need to be competant solo or in small groups (sometimes lacking a certain class or two) for this. being able to solo tu for fast rate exp really doesnt do it for me, and puts a massive set of blinkers on a big server if you are thinking of leveling past 44. alternatives need to be opened up that can offer at least a similar rate of exp gain with an above average kit.

it does depend on the philosophy of wizard that is trying to be achieved, and changes need to reflect this. spells need to work within some kind of harmony, so changing 1 spell will likely have a knock on effect with a different spell - like a buff to ice storm would negate the need for a buff to firewall, or could be argued firewall would then be due a nerf..

obviously that is a matter of balance, and sometimes you need to find balance within a class on its own before you can seriously consider a long term balance against other classes - so dont come straight back at me with pvp/class inbalances and comparisons.

lets hope that a gm doesnt think im 'making demands' with the blunt way im going to post my potentially test worthy changes to some spells, the class and in turn the server.


frost crunch:
as i posted previously - it needs to be used either as a decent damage dealing spell with the small chance for a proc, or a spell casted for its proc so you can follow up with some damage. currenly it doesnt seem to proc a lot, nor deal decent damage, nor go over walls (bad floor tiles too). i would suggest either;
i) proc 10%-15% chance, proc lasts 2-3 seconds, damage increased by around 20%-30%
ii) proc 33% chance, proc lasts 3-5 seconds, damage decreased by 10%-15%
(un tested stat approximations for all spells i mention)

flame disruptor:
previously i suggested with some excitement that, when this drops it will likely be a decent damage dealer. quite bluntly i would now say buff this by a huge amount, as much as 50%-75% damage increase on living targets. but also, quite importantly reduce the mana cost which i will address for all spells later in this post. it would still not compare with an archers single target dps over 30 seonds i dont think.

ice storm:
aoe class with a pretty weak lvl 35 aoe spell. im not saying spell lvl should be relevant to skill damage more than the actual function of it, but dont think people would even feel that much has changed if this were to have a big 50% damage increase. it really isnt effective for clearing mobs, and becomes as useful as firebang for flinching people in pvp, or generating agro on a pack of mobs - as you certainly dont cast it for the damage.

firewall:
i dont know if double stacking firewall is a bug or not. this is worth knowing for sure when suggesting any changes so will be brief..
this was always a massively dominant spell for pvp & pve. laying a 'bed of fw' is nowhere near as protective for a wiz as i think it used to be and ought to be. assuming fw double stacking is a bug, i think the damage should be increased on this by around 15%-20% before mc multipliers. perhaps then consider reducing the duration of each firewall after the mc multiplier.

thunderstorm:
a modest 10%-15% damage increase i would suggest before mc multipliers as ff is clearly not going to be a household item, but most significantly reduce the mana cost (rather than increasing mp drop rates).

mp cost:
hunts do not last long enough on this server. if you want to lvl a wiz asap, you better get tuing like a droid for weeks on end (do not reduce the mana cost of tu, perhaps increase it..). i have previously said i think zuma/bdd/orc/jinchon etc mobs have too much hp, which i still think is true, but could be taken in to account by reducing the mana cost of spells like fd and tstorm. sorry i dont know about other classes, but with the 'wiz are aoe damage' philosophy, feel this ought to be the case - wizards carrying out the majority of mob clearing on long exp and drop rich (relatively) hunts.


i see a lot of rushing bosses, running to krs and going against the idea of the server. it was supposed to be that you clear your way to a boss and kill it, hence removing rts on later floors along with other admin comments - but currently everyone seems to rush through bdd to kill dd (as you cant take enough mana to clear through regardless of competition or time:exp), run to oma king / evil mir with 0 exp or mob clearing, or rt / rush to orc champs/collo as the mobs are god awful to kill and a mana waste. *i actualy think orc is a really good cave set up with a proper mob clearing hunt on offer to the kr - the only cave this is viable in.

i was about to type about fox and remembered my 'suggestions' thread.. so cba wasting my time with more details on caves - but my point is that reducing mana cost keeps people in caves longer, gives people more satisfaction from 1 long hunt than 4 boss runs, and people repotting / changing cave always breaks up the flow of a guilds/servers activity where often people will go afk or not attend the next boss run - taking in to account boss runs also encourage killing them with as few people as possible for maximum returns.
more long group hunts should be on offer (orc warlord type), more quick/lesser rewarding boss runs in small groups should be on offer (orc champs) - but in a wider varierty of caves. obvious this then crosses over with drop files of caves/mobs, which is currently being addressed i trust for now.

so long story short - not considering mob hp/dmg or drop rates of mobs & their bosses, reducing mana cost of wiz aoe spells (particularly tstorm) makes clearing caves like frozen / jinchon / lost ship and even bdd a lot more viable. reducing mana cost of single target spells (particularly fd), makes hunts like orc warlord more viable.


in summary:
light damage buff, re consider mana cost.

(not mentioned some things i have considered that others are already discussing on this thread at least)

 

[ziiid]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Leveling=Wizards currently out level every other class (see rankings top 25 or 30 players of each class) TU is very strong and will just get better as wizards level up further (can TU all zt monsters in BDD for example). This might be so good that it is a problem atm (see wizards leveling up afk people in BDD). Wizards are definitely not handicapped when it comes to leveling.
Bosses=wizards are still useful for most if not all bosses, basically identical to archers here except for raw single target damage output. Shield acually makes them more effective for killing some bosses eg. tao +wiz is better than tao + archer for mtk.
PVP=Does not appear to be any problems for wizards in pvp at the moment

Little tweaks such as TU chance rate, t.storm mp and dmg ratio (is nice has no pvp effect) could be used to both limit leveling speed (TU wise) while potential raising the amount of options for places to level and speed of leveling (using TStorm)

All bosses being reverted back to dumb ai's (tao and wiz would get collo stuck and then killing is np) doesn't seem like the best way of going forward (allthough maybe being able to kite kill Collo isn't the best either but if archers could do it wizards could as well, perhaps mp limiting which would be an easy tweak). Could make certain bosses more wizard friendly?

 

[davey_boyy]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Lmao wizies are not class to kill boses. Its only for mass kiling mobs.

No their not but they cannot mass kill mobs effectively on this server either lol Except for PT which to be lvling in PT at 45+ seems a bit silly to me.

 

[thedeath]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

tbh what i always laughed at on ace/chronicles is how nobody seems to complain about the major nerf these files have on firewall.
in theory firewall is a really low damage/hit skill, but on any other server it hits ALOT, it's like wiz's form of poison on most servers, except here it's nerfed and it rarely hits

 

[Falk]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Leveling=Wizards currently out level every other class (see rankings top 25 or 30 players of each class) TU is very strong and will just get better as wizards level up further (can TU all zt monsters in BDD for example). This might be so good that it is a problem atm (see wizards leveling up afk people in BDD). Wizards are definitely not handicapped when it comes to leveling.
Bosses=wizards are still useful for most if not all bosses, basically identical to archers here except for raw single target damage output. Shield acually makes them more effective for killing some bosses eg. tao +wiz is better than tao + archer for mtk.
PVP=Does not appear to be any problems for wizards in pvp at the moment

Can we get retards like this who clearly have never thoroughly played a wizard on this server off this thread?

 

[CremeEgg82]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

I like all these posts and I'll try to respond properly when I have some time.

However what I would like to bring up as food for thought, is, is it more a case of the server lacks an identity/design goal than there are individual issues with each element/class of the game?

Does this game want to be like KR, CN, or EU, or does it want to be something completely new?

Whatever it wants to be it needs to establish an identity, set clear design goals and then lay all that out for the player base to decide if it is what they want.

 

[Koriban]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

PvP wise, tiger neckies ruin this class.

Which is a shame as I feel they'd be much stronger if this was fixed.

PvE wise... well they're the dominant aoe class but suck at boss killing on here due to FW being pretty bad.

As i've said, if mirror had controls like deva, it would help .... but I do not agree that these controls should even exist. Deva follow & guard do seem OK, but being able to lock onto a target, is not something that should be done.

+1 to this though.

 

[ziiid]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Can we get retards like this who clearly have never thoroughly played a wizard on this server off this thread?

Feel free to bring your own insights, suggestions and constructive reasoning to this thread. Your current post is clearly none of the above, is not relevant to the OP nor to the suggestions of the moderator. Oddly enough the main suggestion in my post happened to mirror the post directly before it placed at nearly the same time.

Some increases in damage and reduction in mp cost.

 

[Clintus2]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

I am a Wiz, always played a Wiz so I hope that my two penneth is deemed viable.

FW is definitely not as powerful as it has been on other servers. even if it had a 25% buff it wouldn't be as powerful

MP usage on all spells is far too high, making hunts much shorter, exactly what Mampi said

Ice Storm is completely pointless. I remember seeing a high level wizz on Euro kill a large lure in PB with this and FW alone. (ok they probably had great MC but i would imagine even with 45-50 MC this spell would still hit like Firebang.

Shield, 3 hits from a medium Mob and it goes down. i have a feeling it works differently on here as on other servers there was a point in using it.

FD i don't have it yet but can see from others that it is seriously underpowered, i am sure it is supposed to hit living mobs with more damage than Tbolt

Frost Crunch, I haven't even got it on my keys, Tbolt hits better!

I can honestly say that it really does feel like the Team recognize that on Euro etc Wiz would always become the dominant class and have decided to try and address this. However they have definitely suppressed it too much.

I am seriously considering re-rolling when i get to 40 and i have never considered this in the past.

 

[Falk]

Re: [GM] Wizard Class

Feel free to bring your own insights, suggestions and constructive reasoning to this thread. Your current post is clearly none of the above, is not relevant to the OP nor to the suggestions of the moderator. Oddly enough the main suggestion in my post happened to mirror the post directly before it placed at nearly the same time.

Some increases in damage and reduction in mp cost.

My insights mirror the views of others, anyone whos played a wizard past 20 will know that you log on and if you want to level you either go to PT or TU BDD ghouls and usually end up fighting thus ruining the hunt.
Pets are the only real solo option and most wizards are up to brown frog level so they are scarce not to mention tame times and retaming times.


The fact that there are alot of high level wizards doesnt mean the class isnt broken it means that they have lived in PT 3rd. I started a wizard because i wanted to be the one first asked on guild hunts... the class no one could do a competent guild hunt without. But thats not the case zt and BDD mobs health pool is too high so you need 3 wizards to even think about hunting efficiently and even then depending on group size you will be out of MP just as you reach zt kr (If you do a full clearance probably wont even make it that far).

If i could restart id make a warrior or an archer... a class that you can log on go hunt solo for an hour and log off and made a good few %. Wizards are not that class.